JAMES LEE BEATHARD: Most prosecutor’s images, reputation and in fact careers, in, in heavy elections, aren’t gonna be based on whether or not they sought justice. Their careers, their reputations in the community will be based on did they get the most convictions. That’s it. I mean, that’s real, that’s reality. I don't think anybody can deny that.

INTERVIEWER: But I would respect a prosecutor who said a person didn’t do it, than put them in a gas chamber.

JAMES LEE BEATHARD: Yeah, but most prosecutors don’t see it that way. They look at it as having to, to admit that a mistake occurred. I mean, look the guy, Jack, Jack (Skien?), in (Carrie Max Cook’s?) case out in Smith County, I don't know if you followed that one or not. The courts have pretty much cleared this guy. They pretty much slam the court for they prosecuted his case. And yet, Skiens will still insist that the man’s guilty. You know, and if you have a guy who has no criminal history. To speak of. Who is a sensitive and articulate person.Somebody who under most conditions would be considered a sympathetic person with a group of people, say jurors or what ever. How do you deal with that? Well, you paint them as the evil genius who wanted to get over on something. You make them into Hannibal Lector or what ever you have to do. To win the case. You try to turn anything you can to your advantage. And that’s, that may be my case. The next, the next trial that another prosecutor might go for, he’s gonna play on the racial issue of it. He’s going to, he’ll never say it. But he knows what those jurors biases are down deep inside. He knows, and he’ll play off of them. The next person who may be up, may be (...?) with a motorcycle club. Well he’s gonna play on that. He’s gonna turn this guy who’s like a weekend warrior into a 24 hour a day 1 percenter hells angel by the time he’s finished. That’s how you win convictions. (SIMULTANEOUS CONVERSATION) There's a difference between proving guilt beyond a reasonable doubt, and talking the jury into a conviction. And in Texas the prosecutors job has grown to be, has evolved to be, talking the jury into a conviction.

INTERVIEWER: This show will air late in the year 2000, and you said you'd be dead by then. What do you mean by that?

JAMES LEE BEATHARD: Oh, my appeal, I’m out of, I’m out of the 5^th circuit. I have applied the last step of my appeal to the U.S. Supreme Court. The U.S. Supreme Court will certainly turn me down. Probably any day now. Within the next week or 2. Definitely before November’s finished up. And at that point I’ll receive a very swift execution day setting. Probably for just before Christmas. I know the prosecutor in my case loves doing things like that to my family. And, and there’s really not any options I have at that point. I mean, I’m, I’m telling you now openly, I will probably be dead before Christmas. Certainly before January.

INTERVIEWER: Who’s handling your appeal now?

JAMES LEE BEATHARD: I have a lawyer named Steve (Loke?).

INTERVIEWER: So its not the Texas Resource Center.

JAMES LEE BEATHARD: They had my case and the second part of my appeal. They folded a long time ago. They're the people who forgot to file my first petition for (circ?).

INTERVIEWER: What do you think about prison advocacy groups like this?

JAMES LEE BEATHARD: I'm glad they're there. As I said earlier. Sometimes the struggle is not that you, is not because you think you'll win. But because you have to at least try. You know, I think its good they're there. I think most of them are in the long run, unfortunately, are ineffective. And its not because of them, its because of the way the legislature and the public’s set up now. I mean, I’m sure there are people in, during, in the 3^rd Reich, who were protesting the treatment of Jews. But in the long run, it wasn't much they could do.

INTERVIEWER: What were the final days of some of the executed men you knew here.

JAMES LEE BEATHARD: So many guys have and probably half of them were telling the truth. The majority of guys here who are guilty will admit it. They'll (admit?) cause they won’t talk about it. Of the ones who claim they're innocent, I would figure probably half, nearly half of them probably were… the last 2 cell partners I had before, I’m on a single cell wing now. I had a cell partner, that they moved me off from. To be on the single cell wing.Before he was in the cell, back down the line, the last 2 cell partners, (Earl Berringer?) and Cliff (Bogus?). probably the 2 closest friends I’ve ever had. I mean, I would, I would have put my life on the line for either of them. And I know they'd a done it for me. Its that tight. A study in contrast. Earl Berringer was innocent. I have no doubt in my mind he was innocent. His case similar to mine, he had a co-defendant who testified against him in exchange for a deal. Unlike my case, the prosecutor honored that deal… As it turns out this boy had given a statement to a number of people that he knew. That he had lied in Berringer’s case. That Berringer wasn’t guilty of the crime. But he admitted he had to do it to make a deal. And every bit of that evidence was brought up. But because Berringer’s appeal had progressed to a certain point, it wasn't admissible any more. Now, you have a 30 day rule in Texas, and although they've modified that, the, the exceptions to that 30 day rule are so restrictive that I don't know of anybody who’s ever been able to meet the burden yet, and go back and revisit an innocence claim like that. Berringer was a good person. He was ex-military. Strong Christian man. Had a hell of a ride sense of humor. A good sense of humor, was an extremely loyal person. And when his time came and he knew it, he didn’t like it any more than I did, but he accepted it. You know, I mean, its, and, and he was a strong person. You know, even the day he was executed, I, I got to talk to him out here. When he was out on a visit and I had a visit. Tell him good bye. And, I, I don't know how to describe it other than a spiritual strength and a great deal of dignity. The next person was my cell partner, Cliff Bogus. He came in here a big dumb country boy. But he had an innate intelligence. That nobody really ever recognized or gave him a chance with before. And in the 10, 12 years I knew him. 10 or 12, I can’t really, its been so long now. Years that I knew him, I saw the man educate himself. Grow, discover a spiritual meaning in his life. Became one of the strongest Christians and one of the most dedicated Catholics I’ve ever known. He discovered art in his life. He was one of the most gifted artists I’ve ever known personally in here or on the streets. And he was guilty. You know, he never denied it.

INTERVIEWER: How do you manage to hang on so long here?

JAMES LEE BEATHARD: I have family and friends who visit regularly. I, without them, I would probably be a different person than I am now. I’m not so sure I’d be sane now. I’d probably have given up a long time ago. My, my parents visit me almost ever other week. I have a wife who visits me probably nearly over, more than my parents do. I have a daughter that visits me every 2 or 3 weeks. I have a brother that visits when he can. Other relatives and friends who come down pretty routinely. (SIMULTANEOUS CONVERSATION) I’ve been very lucky, you know. I came from a, from a good background, with a really tight family and a lotta good friends. And, and I’ve, they've been the thing that’s kept me together these years.

INTERVIEWER: What is it like for your wife and child to come here?

JAMES LEE BEATHARD: My wife is, understands the situation. We got married after I was here. But we’ve been in each other’s lives for over a quarter of a century. Since we were in high school. My daughter I didn’t see for a long time. And she started to visit, now she’s old enough to come on her own. And then, and that’s been good. I mean, she really needs me in her life. And I need her in my life too. I have a son who lives in Tennessee. I don’t hear from him too much. Just cause of the distance. My daughter is, is having trouble dealing with this. She’s pretty angry about the situation. Cause all the missed years and the future I won't have with her. My wife can accept it, and its gonna hurt her. The person I worry most about’s my mother. This is gonna pretty much shatter my mother. When I’m executed. And really again, I think that’s what a lot of the people outside want.

INTERVIEWER: Are they prepared for the media when the day comes?

JAMES LEE BEATHARD: I don't think there’ll be any media when the day comes. I mean, you know, if I, if I were female, if there had been a big movement to push for my innocence to something like that, and maybe. But no, I’ll just be a, another, another blip. You know, the executions go by anymore the, its, lotta the local stations don’t even carry the news, you know, anymore. Its almost a non-event now. Which is another reason why any arguments for deterrence don’t really hold up. If nobody knows the executions (...?), but if nobody pays attention cause its so routine. What value does it have?

INTERVIEWER: If you could rejoin society, what would you do with your life?

JAMES LEE BEATHARD: I’d be pretty much conflicted. I mean, there’s a part of me that’d want to speak out for social justice and try to change this. You know, the death penalty. And even then, I’ll admit the death penalty’s not my biggest concern in society any more. You know, its treatment of the economic, you know displaced in this country. Its unbelievably how bad, its unbelievable how bad its getting out there. I, and as bad as my situation is, I’m not a kid growing up in a place where, where I watch people get shot all the time. I’m not a kid in Baghdad, or, or Belgrade, or, or I didn’t have to go to Serajevo. You know, so I mean, you know, globally speaking, my situation isn’t that bad. You know, but I would, I would like to do that. But there’s a part of me that says, you know, to hell with it. I just really want to get away. If I could do anything in wanted to, if all these other pressures weren't there, the thin I would do would be move back out to the country, where I’m from. You know, I'm a rural, I’m a country boy. No doubt about that. And, I would go into a, a small scale organic farming business. I mean, that’s probably my dream. More than anything else in the world. I, I love farming.

INTERVIEWER: Tell me about yourself.

JAMES LEE BEATHARD: Okay, until I was almost 5, I was a military brat. My dad was in the Air Force, a medic in the Air Force. He was killed in a car wreck in France when I was a little boy. We moved to Cherokee county, (...?) Texas, where his family was from. And that’s where I grew up. My grand parents were always there. They were very, very close, I, you know, there’s, gosh I can’t remember over 2 or 3 days passing when I was growing up that I didn’t see my grand parents. My mother, because there was the 3 of us kids and just my mother after my father died, we were very, very close all 4 of us.Very close. I, and we pretty much took care of each other growing up. The town I grew up in was a small town. It’s a close community, people kind a watch out for each other there. Its, its wasn't a really bad place to grow up. You know, I mean, I ran bare foot in the woods, and rode my bicycle down town. And, and the whole 9 yards. I went to school. I was you know, a normal kid. Science club, you know a future teacher. 4H and that sort of thing. You know, nothing really extraordinary.

INTERVIEWER: What kind of student were you?

JAMES LEE BEATHARD: Not the best. I mean, I graduated an honors student from high school, but I was a lazy student. You know, I got used to the fact that schools then and more so now are always geared to the lowest common denominator. And… half the class is always gonna be above that level. You know. At least half the class. And so you know, a lot of us got lazy. I was growing up in the 60s and the early 70s. You know I, I did my share of drugs in high school and college. No doubt about that.

INTERVIEWER: Did you and (...?) grow up together?

JAMES LEE BEATHARD: No. No, he moved to Rusk, after I had gotten married. I got married in 1978… and I, and I met him where I was working at (Rusk State?) hospital at the time. I mean, you know, it was, it was an unbelievably middle class background. You know, there’s nothing there. And my mother remarried when I was 13. To a, to a man, who lived in Rusk or near Rusk all his life. And I was always enjoyed a really great relationship with my step father. He’s a great guy. I love that guy. As much as, as my own biological father if he, if he’d still been living.

INTERVIEWER: What do you miss most about the outside world?

JAMES LEE BEATHARD: Oh, geez, I don't know how you prioritize that. I don't know, you know, I mean its, you know it’s the little things that all add up. I’d like to be able to walk barefoot in the grass. I’d like to walk up and put my arms around a tree. I’d like to be able to you know, hug my daughter. I’d like to be able to kiss my wife. You know, all those things. I’d like to be able to go out at night and look up at the sky and actually see stars again. You know, that sort of thing. I mean, there’s all those things. I really wouldn’t know how you prioritize that.

INTERVIEWER: Have you thought about what your last words are going to be?

JAMES LEE BEATHARD: Sure, about a million times. I don't know what they'll be. I’ve got an idea, but we’ll see to it when that time comes. You know.

INTERVIEWER: What’s the idea?

JAMES LEE BEATHARD: I don't know. You know, I mean, hopefully I’ll get to tell the people that I care about that day that you know, that I cared about them. I, I do, I will take that moment. I guarantee you that, to, to mention a causes that seem to be just real important to me. And that’s, that’s complete disregard for what, what happens to the environment. You know. That, and the ungrowing, the ongoing injustice of, of a lot of issues. For instance the continuing embargo against Iraq and, and Cuba. I know it seems like a stupid thing about (to guy?) for a guy about to die to say. (Those things?) are real important to me. You know, this is costing children their lives. The environmental disregard is costing everybody their future. And, and I can’t believe that its not a bigger issue to people out there than it is. You know. The one time in my life when people will actually really give a damn about hearing what I have to say will be then. And, I intend to try to make use of it.