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REPORTER'S DAILY TRANSCRIPT OCTOBER 28, 1996 SUPERIOR COURT OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA FOR THE COUNTY OF LOS ANGELES SHARON RUFO, ET AL., N/A, PLAINTIFFS, VS. ORENTHAL JAMES SIMPSON, ET AL., DEFENDANTS. SANTA MONICA, CALIFORNIA MONDAY, OCTOBER 28, 1996 8:54 A.M. DEPARTMENT NO. WEE HON. HIROSHI FUJISAKI, JUDGE (REGINA D. CHAVEZ, OFFICIAL REPORTER) THE COURT: At this time, the Court will address the motion of Copley's Press, et cetera. MS. SAGER: Good morning. Kelli Sager on behalf of the nonparty media organizations. Our argument has been set forth in the motion. I don't want to take up more of the Court's time than is necessary. We have not received any opposition from any of the parties. I presume that none has been filed with the Court. The motion is pretty straightforward. The blank questionnaires, it was our understanding, would be released as soon as the jury was impaneled. That has not yet been done. We ask the Court to do that immediately; and the questionnaires that have already been filled out by jurors that were subjected to oral voir dire that are the controlling cases in Copley and Lesher and Press-Enterprise, which are quoted in our papers, we believe, should also be released under the First Amendment. We're not asking for identifying information such as names, addresses, phone numbers, Social Security numbers, but all other information in those questionnaires is considered part of the voir dire process which is subject to the First Amendment Right of Access. And since there have been no findings of any compelling interest justifying closure order, we think there wouldn't be any blanket order closure of the sort that is now in effect, we ask that it be immediately released redacted version of those questionnaires that the jurors identifying numbers, but no other name identifying information on these. I'm happy too answer any questions the Court has or if any opposition is going to be presented at hearing; otherwise, we will not take up any more of the Court's time. THE COURT: The blank questionnaires are ordered released. The questionnaires of all jurors who are not seated in the jury panel, either as jurors or alternate jurors, are ordered released. The questionnaires with regards to the jurors sitting in the jury panel or as alternate jurors, they are ordered not released until the conclusion of this program. Court's inspection of the questionnaires convinces the Court that there are numerous references from which the identity of the jurors can be obtained by various investigative procedures which the press has, in the past, undertaken to find out the identity of prospective jurors. My information is that, on prior cases, the jurors' identities have been sought out and have been discovered in other cases without very much investigation, based upon the curiosity of the press. And the Court feels that the information in the questionnaires at various points reveals such things as place of employment, names of persons who are -- whose names are included in response to various portions of the questionnaires, would easily link to the identification of the jurors. The jurors are not sequestered. It is important that the identity of the jurors remain anonymous and not be revealed, because the Court is concerned that the extensive efforts made by the press to pursue persons who are involved in this case, whether they be parties, witnesses, jurors or anybody else, has been extensive, or has itself experienced the intrusiveness of this. The Court is satisfied that it's necessary to protect the identity and anonymity of the jurors throughout this trial, so that they will not be affected by any pressures exerted by the media upon themselves and their names families' places of employment. Jurors are concerned that they are being pressured by people at their places of employment, by family members -- pressure placed upon family members by co-workers, and I think there is a supreme interest to be preserved until this case is completed. MS. SAGER: Your Honor, if I could ask one question: Does the Court find that there is no portion of any of the questionnaires that could be released without identifying the jurors, or any identification of jurors? THE COURT: I think the questions and answers are so inextricably intertwined, that for the Court to spend its time going through 20 -- actually 60 questionnaires, when I'm trying to get this case done is, I think, a little excessive. So the motion to that extent is denied on those grounds. MS. SAGER: Thank you, Your Honor. THE COURT: Bring the jury in. (Time is 9:56 a.m.) (Jurors resume their respective seats.) THE COURT: Morning. JURORS: Good morning. THE COURT: Mr. Kelly, call your next witness. MR. KELLY: Good morning. JURORS: Good morning. MR. KELLY: Your Honor, before we do call the witness, we've stipulated as to the admission of certain exhibits, and I'd like to just read those numbered exhibits into the record, with a brief description, if I might. THE COURT: Go ahead. MR. KELLY: Exhibit No. 38, which is Ron Goldman's body with the glove, hat, and envelope. (The instrument herein described were marked for identification as Plaintiffs' Exhibit No. 38.) MR. KELLY: No. 127, which is the kitchen area of 875 South Bundy. (The instrument herein described were marked for identification as Plaintiffs' Exhibit No. 127.) MR. KELLY: Number 133, which is a front view of 875 South Bundy. (The instrument herein described were marked for identification as Plaintiffs' Exhibit No. 133.) MR. KELLY: Number 27, which is a rear view of 875 South Bundy. (The instrument herein described were marked for identification as Plaintiffs' Exhibit No. 27.) MR. KELLY: Number 81, which is a view of the rear gate of the 875 South Bundy from the inside. (The instrument herein described were marked for identification as Plaintiffs' Exhibit No. 81.) MR. KELLY: Number 82, which is a close-up of the same rear gate. (The instrument herein described were marked for identification as Plaintiffs' Exhibit No. 82.) MR. KELLY: No. 142, which is a close-up of the rear gate top in the inside. (The instrument herein described were marked for identification as Plaintiffs' Exhibit No. 142.) MR. KELLY: Number 85, which is a view of the rear gate of 875 South Bundy from the south side. (The instrument herein described were marked for identification as Plaintiffs' Exhibit No. 85.) MR. KELLY: Number 86, which is a close-up of that same rear gate. (The instrument herein described were marked for identification as Plaintiffs' Exhibit No. 86.) MR. KELLY: Then number 92, which is Detective Fuhrman pointing to a glove. (The instrument herein described were marked for identification as Plaintiffs' Exhibit No. 92.) MR. KELLY: And number 40, which is a close-up of Detective Fuhrman pointing to a glove. (The instrument herein described were marked for identification as Plaintiffs' Exhibit No. 40.) MR. KELLY: That's all, Your Honor. THE COURT: Okay. MR. KELLY: Police Officer Robert Riske, please. ROBERT RISKE, called as a witness on behalf of the plaintiffs, was duly sworn and testified as follows: THE CLERK: You do solemnly swear that the testimony you may give in the cause now pending before this court shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God? THE WITNESS: I do. THE CLERK: Please, state and spell both your first and your last names for the record. THE WITNESS: Robert Riske: R-O-B-E-R-T, R-I-S-K-E. THE CLERK: Thank you. DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. KELLY: Q. Good morning, Officer. A. Good morning. Q. Officer Riske, are you currently employed? A. Yes. Q. And who are you employed by? A. Police officer for the City of Los Angeles. Q. And how long have you been so employed? A. About six and a half years. Q. And on June 13, 1994, were you also employed by the Los Angeles Police Department at that time? A. Yes, I was. Q. And what was your assignment with the police department at that time? A. I was assigned to patrol. Q. Okay. And prior to working for the Los Angeles Police Department, in what capacity were you employed? A. I was in the Navy for six and a half years. Q. Now, going back to June 13, 1994, you said you were assigned to patrol? A. Yes. Q. And out of what district were you assigned to patrol? A. West L.A. Q. Okay. And when you say you were assigned to patrol, did you wear a uniform? A. Yes. Q. And what type of vehicle did you drive at that time, as part of your assignment? A. Marked black and white. Q. Is that one of those cars with the lights on top -- A. Yes. Q. -- and police markings? A. (Witness nods affirmatively.) Q. Now, drawing your attention to June 13, , do you recall what your tour of duty was that day? A. Just I was assigned to Brentwood area. Q. And what were the hours of your duty that day? A. From 11:15 to -- I'm sorry. From 10:30 to 7:15. Q. Was that 10:30 p.m. on June 12 -- A. Right. Q. -- 1994, to 7:15 -- A. 7:15. Q. -- on the 13th. Okay. Now, at approximately 12:09 a.m. on June , 1994, did you receive a radio call in your car? A. Yes, I did. Q. And what was the substance of that radio call? A. I believe it was a prowler, a burglary suspect at 874 South Bundy. Q. And was there anybody in the car with you at that time? A. Just my partner. Q. And what was his name? A. Mike Terrazas. Q. As a result of that radio call that you received at 1209 what if anything did you do next? A. We drove to 874 South Bundy and we were flagged down. Q. When you say you were flagged down, what exactly did you observe upon arriving at 874 South Bundy? A. I observed a male and female with a dog, coming down the steps of 868, and they were waving us down. Q. Now, did you approach Bundy from the north or south? A. From Wilshire Boulevard, which would be the south. Q. And you were heading north? A. Right. Q. And as you pulled up to 874 South Bundy, which side of the street did you park on? A. On the east. Q. Okay. And after making these initial observations, what did you do when you pulled up in your patrol car? A. We exited our vehicle and made contact with a female and male. Q. Okay. And other than the male and female, was there anybody else there at this time? A. No. Q. And you also indicated there was a dog with them, also? A. Yes. Q. Okay. Was that dog running loose or in some other manner? A. It was on a leash. Q. Okay. And can you describe that dog for me. A. I believe it was an Akita. Q. And did you make any observations as to the Akita's condition as you approached the two people with the dog? A. Not at that time, no. Q. Okay. After you had a conversation with these two people, what, if anything, did you do next, Officer? A. They directed us across the street. They said there was a dead lady across the street. Q. And do you recall the area in which -- vicinity -- they directed you? A. 875 South Bundy. Q. Okay. And as you approached 875 South Bundy, could you describe the lighting conditions at the front of 875 South Bundy at that time? A. It was very poor. Q. Dark? A. Dark. Q. Okay. And what about the foliage, if any, around the entrance of 875 South Bundy? A. There is a large, overhanging tree over the walkway. Made it even darker. Q. And were you able to see the front entrance without utilizing your flashlight? A. No. Q. As you approached 857 South Bundy, where, first, did you direct your attention to? A. Towards the grassy areas south of the walkway. Q. And did you observe a walkway leading to the front of 875? A. Not really. Q. Okay. So as I understand, you first went to an area that went up to that walkway? A. Right. Q. Did you have your flashlight on at that time? A. Yes, I did. Q. As you were in that grassy area to the left of the sidewalk of 875 South Bundy, did you make any observations, initially, at this time? A. No. Q. After your initial observations, which there were none, what, if anything, did you do next, Officer? A. The witnesses directed us to the walkway, which would be to the north. Q. Okay. That would be to the right of the area you were? A. Right. Q. Okay. What, if anything, did you do after you were directed to that vicinity by the witnesses? A. I looked down the walkway, using my flashlight, and saw a female laying on the walkway. Q. Okay. Can you describe that female? A. Female, white and black dress, blond hair. Q. And did you make any other observations as to the area immediately surrounding that woman you observed? A. There was blood approximately halfway down the walkway. Q. Now, at that time, Officer, on making those observations, would it be fair to say that you recognized that area as a crime scene? A. Yes. Q. And being a patrol officer, having just arrived at a crime scene, did you have any duties and responsibilities at that time? A. I had called for additional units. We set up for a crime scene, had a call for an ambulance for the lady, called the supervisor. Q. And are there any other steps that you're required to take in terms of first arriving at a crime scene, also? A. We have to try to clear it for any additional victims or suspects, identify and preserve evidence. Q. And were you taking steps to do that immediately upon these observations? A. Yes. Q. Okay. Now, after you had gone out and dispatched for additional help and an ambulance, what, if anything, did you do next? A. I advised my partner, "Grab a hold of the witnesses, find out what they saw or how they found the lady." We recontacted them, and I observed a dog to have blood on his legs. Q. The Akita you had observed earlier? A. Yes. Q. Now, after you made those observations, what, if anything, did you do next, Officer? A. We went back across the street to 875 and approached the female. I was approximately halfway up the walkway, and before, in the foliage next to the walkway, and I saw the male leaning against the north fence. MR. KELLY: See if I can have 32, please. Could you make it a little more distant. THE COURT: That's good. Just like that. Q. (BY MR. KELLY) Now, Officer, are you able to see that photo that's up there right now? A. Yes. Q. Could you indicate, first of all for the ladies and gentlemen of the jury, where you had first focused your attention the first time you approached South Bundy, through a pointer on the podium? A. You can't see it on this photograph; it's like over here, there's a grassy area. Q. That's where you first went? A. Initially? Right. Q. Now, you indicated that you had called for backup and a supervisor and an ambulance as you approached a second time, also? A. Right. Q. And could you indicate where you approached at that time? A. I walked through these plants up to the call box there. Q. And did you at any time step on that walkway going up to 875? A. No, I didn't. Q. Did your partner step on that walkway going up to 875? A. No, he didn't. Q. Now, you also indicated that when you got approximately halfway up there, you had made additional observations? A. Yes, that's correct. Q. What was that? A. I saw the body of Mr. Goldman leaning against the north fence. Q. In that photo, as it appears there, there appears to be blood that's running all the way down to the front sidewalk there. Was that the way it appeared when you arrived there at 12:13 on June 13 -- A. No. Q. -- 1994? Could you indicate with your pointer approximately how far down the blood had run when you arrived there that morning. A. About the midpoint. MR. KELLY: Now, this next photo might be difficult to look at, also. I Just want you to put up , Steve. Q. (BY MR. KELLY) Now, do you recognize that photo, Officer Riske? A. Yes, I do. Q. And what do you recognize that to be? A. That would be the body of Mr. Goldman, as I saw him that night. Q. Okay. And where were you located when you first made that observation? A. I was standing in the foliage next to the call box. Q. And did you attempt to get any closer at that time when you made that observation? A. No, I didn't. MR. KELLY: Steve, could you make that a little more distant, please. That's good. Q. (BY MR. KELLY) Now, in addition to the young male you saw in that photo there, did you make any other observations at that time? A. There's some articles of evidence in this picture. Q. And did you observe them at this time when you had approached the front call box on the lot? A. Yes, I did. Q. Can you tell me, first of all, what additional items you observed at that point? A. The envelope. There's a glove and a hat underneath the plant (witness indicates). Q. Okay. First of all, could you point out the envelope, please. A. (Witness indicates.) Q. And is that located exactly where it was when you observed it that morning? A. Yes. Q. And secondly, could you point out the glove you observed. A. This is a bad photo. You can't really see. It's in the same -- it's in that area, but you can't see it clearly. MR. KELLY: Could you bring it up closer. Steve. A. That would be the glove right there. (Indicating.) Q. (BY MR. KELLY) Okay. And are you able to see a portion of that hat, also, in that picture? A. I believe the hat is up here a little farther. Q. If we go down to the lower right, maybe -- MR. BLASIER: Objection. Leading. THE COURT: Sustained. A. Can't really see in that picture. Q. (BY MR. KELLY) If I might, if -- can you step up here for a moment, Officer. I direct your attention down to that area there. A. Right. Q. Okay. Now, upon a closer look, do you recall where you observed the hat at this time? A. Yes. Q. Where would that be? A. In the lower right. Q. Can you indicate one more time -- MR. KELLY: Steve, could you back up a little bit. Q. (BY MR. KELLY) Now, can you indicate once again where the hat was, Officer? A. It's in the lower right. Q. Now, in addition to making those observations, did you make any others in terms of potential evidence in that immediate vicinity at this time? A. Yes. Q. And what was that? A. There appeared to be a bloody heel mark in the walkway and bloody footprints leading up the steps toward the house. Q. The bloody heel print, does that appear in that picture there? A. Can't really see it. Q. And with regard to the bloody footprints going up the stairs, was that towards the house? A. Towards the house. Q. Did you observe any bloody footprints in the front sidewalk, going away from the house? A. No, I didn't. Q. What, if anything, did you do, Officer, after making this second observation near -- the second time you approached the front gate? A. I saw the bloody footprints leading towards the front of the house and observed the front door to be open, and I assumed that the footprints probably went inside. So my partner and I stepped over the body and went to the front door. Q. When you stepped over the body, can you describe for us exactly how you were able to do that? A. Stay to the far left of the walkway, against the fence. MR. KELLY: Steve, can you take that picture down, first of all. I'm sorry. (Steve complies) A. And went up on a landing, toward the front door. Q. And did anybody accompany you at that time? A. My partner. Q. Who was? A. Officer Terrazas. Q. And what, if anything, did you observe as you approached the front door at that time? A. I observed the footprints that continued westbound through the walkway, past the house. Q. And did you observe anything other than bloody footprints before you reached the front door? A. There was a drop of blood. It was on the left of the footprint. I forget exactly where it was. Q. That was before you reached the front door? A. Right. Q. And when you arrived at the front door, was it opened or closed? A. It was opened. Q. And did the bloody footprints appear to head towards the door and continue to the back? A. They continued westbound on the walkway. Q. As you approached the door, also, was there any indication of a forced entry on that door? A. No. Q. What, if anything, did you do next as you arrived at the door, Officer? A. We entered the residence on the landing, to see if there was any evidence of ransacking or any evidence of blood in the house. Q. Did you see any doors open? A. No. Q. Any cupboards open? A. No. Q. Any furniture overturned? A. No. Q. Any sign of ransacking? A. No. Q. Any indication that the crime scene extended inside the house? A. No. Q. Any bloody footprints? A. No. Q. Any drops of blood? A. No. Q. Anybody in the house at this time? A. At that time, we didn't check the whole house, no. Q. What, if anything, did you observe after that? A. I observed a lithograph on the wall. It appeared to be O.J. Simpson. And as I went to the kitchen, there was an envelope, it had O.J. Simpson as a return address. Q. What did you do next, after making those observations? A. I used a phone to call my watch commander. Q. Who was your watch commander? A. Sergeant David Rossi. Q. Now, you usually carry what's called a "rover," do you not? A. Yes. Q. And what is a rover? A. It's a radio, like a walkie-talkie. Q. And would that have put you in communication with your watch commander, also? A. Yes. Q. And you chose not to use that at that time? A. Yes. Q. And why was that? A. Because the media has scanners and they scan our frequency. If I would have used my radio, told them exactly what I had, the media would have got there before anybody else. Q. After you made this phone call, what, if anything, did you do next? A. I went back outside, told my partner to grab the witnesses, and I went around down the walkway, around the north side in the neighbor's yard. Q. If I can hold up a little bit. How did you exit the house then? A. Through the front door and down the landing. Q. And how did you go down the landing and the walkway, once again? A. Staying to the far left, away from the blood, stepped over the female. Q. To the best of your knowledge, did you ever put your foot in the blood at any time? A. No. Q. Did you ever observe your partner? A. No. Q. And when you headed back out that sidewalk, was it in the same bushy area to the south side of the sidewalk? A. We just stepped over the bushes and went through the grass. Q. What, avoiding the sidewalk at all times? A. Yes. Q. As you arrived back out on the street, then, after exiting the house, what, if any further action, did you take? A. I personally went north in the neighbor's yard, to the north of the male body, and observed the pager laying on the ground. And I checked to see if he was alive. Q. First of all, how did you approach the vicinity north of the enclosed area when you went there? A. A dirt path that leads back to the fence. Q. Is that a clear path? A. Clear as a path with nothing on it. Q. And did you have your flashlight on at that point? A. Yes, I did. Q. Were you using it at that point? A. Yes. Q. In what manner were you using the flashlight as you approached that area north of the gated area of 875 South Bundy? A. I shined it on the ground and in the bushes, make sure I didn't mess up any evidence. Q. Were you looking for additional evidence, if any? A. Yes. Q. Did you see any evidence prior to arriving at the gate, on the outside, on the north side? A. Just his pager, or a pager. Q. Did you look in the vicinity elsewhere outside the gated area, also, north of the enclosed area? A. Yes, I did. Q. And did you look in the vicinity east of the gated area towards the front of 875 Bundy with your flashlight, also? A. Yes. Q. When you say you were using a flashlight, Officer, what type of flashlight is that, by the way? A. It's extremely light; it's aluminum. It's about 30,000 candle power. Q. That's standard police issue. A. You have to buy it yourself. (Laughter.) Q. Standard police issue if you pay for it? A. Standard police issue would be plastic. Q. Okay. So this was much stronger than a standard police-issue flashlight? A. Right. Q. Powerful flashlight? A. Right. Q. You personally bought it for that reason? A. Right. Q. Now, after approaching on the north side there, in making these observations in the immediate vicinity, what, if anything, did you do next? A. I checked Mr. Goldman to see if he was alive. Q. And was he? A. No. Q. And in what manner did you check? A. I touched his eyeball with my finger, checking for involuntary blinking, or I used my light to illuminate his pupil. And there was no dilation or anything. Q. And you were still on the north side, outside the gated area, at this point? A. That's correct. Q. And at that point, where you're with your light, were you able to observe the glove you had seen earlier, also? A. Yes. Q. And the hat? A. I believe the bush was covering the hat. Q. Were you able to see any other items of what appeared to you to be evidence at this time, when you shined your light around? A. No. Q. And then did -- did you leave that area? A. Yes, I did. Q. And what did you do next? A. I went back out to the street. As I did so, Officer Wally and officer McGowan arrived. Q. And did anybody else? A. Initially, just those. And then Sergeant Coon arrived a couple of seconds later. Q. When Wally and McGowan arrived, were they patrol officers, also -- A. Yes. Q. -- in uniform? A. Yes. Q. Driving a black and white? A. Yes. Q. And where did they park their car? A. On the west side of the street, north of, probably, 873. Q. That's on the same side as 875 South Bundy? A. Right. Q. And shortly after they arrived, did someone else arrive there, also? A. Sergeant Coon. Q. And by the way, Sergeant Coon, that's not the same one from the Rodney King case? A. No. Q. Okay. Now, when he arrived, did you have a discussion with him? A. Yes. Q. And what, if anything, did you tell them? A. I just told them we had a double homicide, and where I was, basically. And Sergeant Coon gave out marching orders. Q. What were the marching orders that Sergeant Coon gave out? A. Officer Terrazas was at the rear location, to secure the rear. Officer McGowan started setting up crime-scene tape, and Officer Wally and I entered the house and searched it. Q. Taking these one step at a time, did you see how Officer Terrazas left for the rear of the house? A. He left southbound, Bundy and Dorothy. Q. And Dorothy up to the alleyway? A. I saw him go southbound on Bundy. Q. And did you see McGowan start setting up the crime-scene tape? A. Yes. Q. By the way, prior to June 13, 1994, had you been the first officer on the scene on prior occasions? A. Yes. Q. Approximately how many times? A. To crime scenes? Q. Yeah. A. Twenty. Q. And how many of those 20 crime scenes were actually homicides? A. Fifteen. Q. All right. And at those 15 homicides, was it your primary responsibility of identifying evidence and observing a crime scene? A. Yes. Q. Now, going back to Officer McGowan, did you see him actually start using the crime-scene tape to secure the front of 875 South Bundy? A. Yes, I did. MR. KELLY: Steve, may I see 133, please. Bring it a little more in focus, if possible. Q. (BY MR. KELLY) Officer, do you recognize that location? A. Yes. Q. Is that the front of 875 South Bundy? A. Yes, it is. Q. I was wondering if you could step down a minute; it might be easier for you to point out a couple things. The pointer is behind you there. Once again, can you indicate when you first arrived at the scene, you spoke to those two people, when you first looked for the body you had been directed to. A. In the grassy area, over here. (Indicating.) Q. And later on, you had indicated that when you came out of the house the second time, you were going to the sidewalk north of 875 South Bundy, to approach the gated area from the outside? A. It was a dirt path, not a sidewalk. Q. Well, do you see that area there? A. It's like, right in here. (Indicating.) Q. That's where you proceeded up and observed Mr. Goldman? A. Yes. Q. Okay. Thank you. You may have a seat. The way that crime-scene tape, that's the way it was taped off that morning after McGowan was done? A. Yes. There's actually two separate areas were taped. Q. And if I could see . . . Do you recognize that photograph, Officer? A. Yes. Q. And what is that? A. That's the rear alley of 875 Bundy. Q. And the crime-scene tape -- first of all, that yellow tape is the crime-scene tape, is it not? A. Yes. Q. And that tape that is closest to us, do you know what is standing across there? A. It's the foot of the alley of Dorothy. Q. And there's crime-scene tape down at that distance, also? A. Right. Q. Where is that located relative to 875 South Bundy? A. That's the rear of one house north of 875 South Bundy. Q. Can you just point out that tape that you see at the far end. A. (Witness complies, indicating.) Q. There's a black-and-white patrol car in that photo, also. Is that inside the tape or outside? A. It's outside the tape. Q. And do you recognize the individual in that picture, also? A. That's me. Q. And where are you standing relative to the rear of 875 South Bundy? A. To the rear of the driveway. Q. After the front and rear had been secured of this crime scene with the tape you indicated that you and Police Officer Wally did something that Sergeant Coon -- A. We searched the house while the crime-scene tape was being set up. Q. And can you describe for us the manner in which you entered and searched the house with Officer Wally? A. We went in the grassy area, stepped over the body of the female at the landing of the front door. Q. Upon entering the front of the house, what did you do then? A. We searched the lower level, back to the garage. Then we went up to the second level and searched that. Q. Can you describe exactly how you went through the first level of the house? A. We went -- we checked the living room farthest east. Then we went back to the garage, went down and checked in the garage. Q. Did you -- in the living room, do you recall what living -- what room you went into next? A. The dining room, then the kitchen. Q. The kitchen where you made the phone call, by the way? A. Yes. Q. Okay. MR. KELLY: Can I see . . . Q. (BY MR. KELLY) Do you recognize that photo there, Officer? A. That's the kitchen of 875 South Bundy. Q. That's where you made the call to Sergeant Rossi? A. Right. You can't see it; there's a counter on this side you can't see. Q. To the left of that picture? A. Right. Q. That's where the phone was? A. Right. Yes. Q. That's where you made the call. MR. KELLY: You can take that down. Q. (BY MR. KELLY) After you went through the kitchen with Officer Walsh, where did you proceed to next? A. To the rear of the residence. That's a family-room area. Searched that. Then we went down to the garage. Q. And did you make any observations as you approached the garage? A. There's a couple of ice creams sitting on a bannister. Q. Did you touch that at all? A. No. Q. Did you touch anything on the first floor, as you went through the house? A. No. Q. By the way, as you went through the house, did you observe any signs of ransacking, disturbance, blood, bloody footprints, drops of blood anywhere on the first floor of the house? A. No, I didn't. Q. And when you arrived at the garage, you went through the garage, also? A. Yes. Q. What, if anything, did you observe in there? A. Just a car. Nothing really out of ordinary. Q. Nothing disturbed? A. No. Q. Where did you proceed to next? A. It was a laundry room, and then I believe a maid's quarters are downstairs, checked them. Then I went up to the second floor. Q. What did you observe up there? A. Observed two children asleep in their beds. Q. Were these children in the same room or separate rooms? A. Separate. Q. And were they both asleep at that time? A. Yes. Q. Were you able to make any observations as to the approximate age of these two children? A. Just minors. Q. Young? A. Young. Q. Under 10? A. I would assume. Q. And were the doors open or closed to each of their rooms? A. Open. Q. And did you wake the children at this time? A. No. Q. After observing the children, what next? A. We continued eastbound and checked out the master bedroom, master bath. There was a workout area. Q. What, if any, observations did you make in the master bedroom? A. There was a TV on. I believe there was a table lamp on. The covers on the bed were kind of piled in the middle. Q. The bed wasn't made, was it? A. No. Q. You also indicated you went into the master bathroom? A. Right. Q. What observations did you make in there? A. The tub was full of water, and there were some candles burning to the west of that. Q. Do you recall how many candles were burning at this time? A. Three. Q. Did you blow them out at all? A. No. Q. Did you touch them? A. No. Q. Did you touch the water in the bathtub? A. No. Q. Did you let the water out of that bathtub? A. No. Q. Was there any sign of any struggle, ransacking, dishevelment in the house as you went through it at this time? A. No. Q. No indication that the crime scene extended to the second floor in any way? A. No. Q. After going through the second floor, what, if any, action did you take next with Officer Walsh? A. Went up on the roof -- there's a patio up there -- and checked that. And then Officer Walsh stayed by the children's bedrooms, and I went down and told my supervisor we had two children in the house. And we had to take them out the back. Q. Who was your supervisor? A. Sergeant Coon. Q. And where did you meet him at? A. He was down in the grassy area. I was on the landing. I just yelled to him. Q. And after you told him that, what, if anything, did you do next? A. I walked westbound on the walkway, to the rear gate. Q. Now, facing the front of 875 South Bundy, this walkway you're referring to, where is it in relation to the front of the house? A. It's to the north of the front of the house. Q. Would that be to the right of it? A. Right. Q. And does that walkway extend all the way from the front of the house to the rear alley? A. Yes. Q. And is that a level walkway, or is it different levels? A. No, there's different levels. Q. And as you started back that walkway, did you have your flashlight on or off? A. On. Q. And at that time, did you make any observations as you started back on the walkway? A. I observed what appeared to be bloody footprints continue westbound, and they faded approximately halfway, and observed what appeared to be blood drops. Q. And you indicated earlier that when you first approached the front door, you had also seen bloody footprints and a blood drop to the left of those footprints; is that right? A. Right. Q. Did you take a good look at that first blood drop, first of all, that you observed next to the footprints? A. Just to verify if it was blood or not. Q. Can you describe that blood drop, as you saw it. A. It was red, appeared to be moist, about maybe the size of a dime, a little smaller than a dime. Q. Was it fresh blood? A. Appeared to be fresh. MR. BLASIER: Objection. No foundation. THE COURT: Excuse me? MR. BLASIER: Excuse me. No foundation. THE COURT: "Moist" may mean fresh. Sustained Q. (BY MR. KELLY) You observed blood down by the two bodies on the lower level? A. Yes. Q. Can you describe that blood drop in relation to the other blood you observed on the other level? A. They were very similar, looked to be the same. Q. In terms of consistency? A. Right. Q. Moisture? A. Yes. Q. Color? A. Yes. Q. Red. In your opinion, it was -- A. It was blood. MR. BLASIER: Objection. No foundation. THE COURT: That it was blood, overruled. Q. (BY MR. KELLY) And as you headed towards the back of 875 South Bundy, towards the alley, you indicated you observed additional drops of blood, also? A. Yes. Q. You had occasion to look at them at this time? A. Just so -- I passed them, so I wouldn't step in them. Q. Would you be able to describe those other drops of blood that you saw, also? A. They were consistent in nature to the first one. It was red, appeared to be moist. Q. Sizewise? A. I don't -- really don't recall the size. Q. But they were consistent with the first ones you'd seen, also? A. Yes. MR. BLASIER: Objection. Leading. THE COURT: Overruled Q. (BY MR. KELLY) Did they appear to be -- did it appear to be new blood? A. Appeared to be fresh. MR. BLASIER: Objection. No foundation. THE COURT: New blood. Sustained. Q. Moist? A. Appeared to be fresh. Q. Now, as you approached the rear of 875 South Bundy, is there anything in the alley there or in the walkway there? I'm sorry. A. There's a gate at the rear of the walkway. Q. And as you approached that gate, did you make any observations of that rear gate at that time? A. I observed it to be blood on the inside of the rear gate. And I was advised there was blood on the outside of the gate by my partner. Q. First of all, as you approached the gate -- MR. BLASIER: Objection. Move to strike as hearsay. THE COURT: Strike what? MR. BLASIER: Part of the answer where he talked about what his partner told him. THE COURT: What his partner said, that's stricken. Q. (BY MR. KELLY) You had your flashlight on as you approached the rear gate? A. Yes. Q. And you indicated that you observed blood on different portions of the gate at that time? A. Yes, I did. Q. Did you shine your flashlight? A. Yes. Q. Can you tell us where on the rear gate the blood was located when you observed it with your flashlight? A. I observed what looked like a smear on the top and a couple drops on the bottom, and a smear on the ledge. Q. And can you describe the appearance of that blood you saw in those different places? A. Appeared to be fresh, red, consistent with the rest of the blood. Q. Moist? A. Yes. Q. And you indicated that you had a discussion at that time with your partner, Terrazas -- A. Yes. Q. -- who was at rear gate. As a result of that conversation, did you make any further observation about that back gate? A. There was blood on the grating on the outside of the gate. Q. And can you describe that blood on the grating on the outside appeared, also? A. Appeared to be fresh and moist, consistent with the rest of the blood. Q. Red? A. Red. MR. KELLY: Steve, if I could see number 81, please. Q. (BY MR. KELLY) Now, Officer, looking at that gate, do you recognize that? A. Yes, I do. Q. And what is that gate? A. That's the rear of the walkway; that's the rear alley there. Q. And that would have been as you approached that gate -- A. Right. Q. -- down the walkway. MR. KELLY: And now, Steve, if I could see number 82. Q. (BY MR. KELLY) Do you recognize what appears in that photograph? A. It appears to be the bottom rung of the gate, with blood drops on it. Q. Do you recognize the bottom rung of the gate being the same blood that you observed in the early morning hours of June 13, 1994? A. Yes. Q. Did you observe blood in the same location in that picture that you observed in the early morning hours of June 13, 1994? A. Yes, I did. Q. And can you point to the blood that you observed on the gate at that time and that place. A. Those two spots. (Indicating.) Q. Now, looking at that photograph, does the blood appear there the same as it appeared that night when you observed it in the early morning hours? A. It appears to be in the same spot. It's obviously dry. MR. KELLY: 142, Steve. Q. (BY MR. KELLY) Now, do you recognize that photograph? A. That's the top of the gate, with a blood smear. Q. Is that on the inside? A. Yes. Q. And is that -- does that blood smear appear in that photograph there the same way it was the early morning hours of June 13, 1994? A. Yes. Q. In the same location? A. Yes. Q. Does it physically appear the same, though? A. Yes, it does. Q. Okay. Was it red in color? A. It was red there. It was just a smear. MR. KELLY: Number 85, Steve. Q. (BY MR. KELLY) Do you recognize that as being the outside of the same gate at 875 South Bundy? A. Yes, it is. Q. And is that the gate that Officer Terrazas brought your attention to? A. Yes. Q. Okay. And after him drawing your attention to that rear gate, did you make an observation? A. There's blood on the grating. Q. Do you recall approximately what location that was in? A. It was towards the bottom, middle. Q. Would you indicate with your pointer approximately where it was. A. It was in this area here. (Indicating.) MR. KELLY: And number 86, please, Steve. Q. (BY MR. KELLY) Do you recognize that photograph, Officer? A. Yes. Q. And what is that? A. That's blood on the grating. Q. Does that physically appear the same in that photograph as it was when you saw in the early morning hours of June 13, 1994? A. Yes, it does. Q. Even the color and the texture? A. No. It appears to be dry in this picture. Q. Was it dry when you observed it that morning? A. No; it was fresh, red, appeared to be moist. Q. Now, after making those observations -- by the way, did you shine your flashlight on those various portions of the blood on the gate we just discussed? A. Yes. Q. Did Police Officer Terrazas also put a flashlight on those areas, too? A. Yes, he did. Q. And did you observe those areas at the same time? A. As he directed my attention to it, yes. Q. After making those observations on the rear gate, what, if anything, did you do next? A. I told my partner that we were going to bring the kids out the garage, and I asked him if it would disturb any evidence if we opened the garage. And he said no. Q. Did you actually walk over to look at the garage door when you could bring them out? A. No, I didn't. Q. Did you make any other observations in the garage door vicinity before bringing the children out? A. He just told me there was blood on the driveway. And I told him to stay away from it. Q. Did you actually go and look at the blood at that time? A. No. Q. Did you see any vehicles in the area? A. Not at that time. Q. After being told about the blood in the driveway by Police Officer Terrazas, what, if anything, did you do next? A. I went back in the residence. I went eastbound on the walkway and through the front door. Q. When you say "eastbound on the walkway," was that the same walkway with the bloody footprints and blood drops that you had observed earlier? A. Yes. Q. Did you take measures to avoid those footprints and drops? A. Yes, I did. Q. Did anybody accompany you back to that walkway at that time? A. No. Q. And when you went to the house, did you enter the house alone at that time, also? A. Yes. Q. And who, if anybody, was in the house when you entered at that time? A. Officer Walsh was up by the children's bedroom. Q. Nobody else had come in through that front area of the crime scene at this time, had they? A. No. Q. You went up with Officer Wally, back in the house, at this time? A. Yes. Q. What, if anything, did you do next, after you went up with him? A. We woke up the female and had her get dressed. Then we woke up the little boy and had him get dressed. Then we went out through the garage. Q. And how long did it take you to, first of all, wake up the little girl and get her dressed? A. Just a few minutes. Q. And she was asleep -- A. Yes. Q. -- when you first went in there. And then you went and woke up the little boy? A. Right. Q. And was the little girl with you when you did that? A. Yes. Q. And did she assist you in any way with the little boy? A. She helped us get him dressed. He was kind of upset. Q. And after you had them woke up and dressed, what, if anything, did you do next? A. Went down, out through the garage, and we went down the alley and met up with another officer. Q. And who were those officers that you met up with? A. Officers Heider and Vasquez. Q. And you turned the children over to them? A. Yes. Q. And what was your understanding as to where they were taking the children? A. To the police station. Q. What did you do next, Officer, after you had the children taken to the police station? A. I went back to the driveway area and I saw the blood my partner was referring to, and I saw the door of the vehicle in the driveway, the jeep, to be ajar. Q. First of all, the blood that you observed that Terrazas pointed you to, did you put your flashlight on it at that time? A. Yes, I did. Q. Did you make any observations, or could you describe the blood as you saw it at that time? A. It just appeared to be a fresh, red spot of blood. Q. Was it consistent with the drops you had seen earlier in the walkway? A. Yes. Q. Okay. What, if anything, did you do next, Officer? A. Then I went to the front of 875 South Bundy and I met with Sergeant Coon. Q. That was after going up and down the alleyway? A. That was before. Q. And Sergeant Coon -- did you receive any other instructions? A. Sergeant Rossi arrived, and we showed him the crime scene in the front; then we went around the back. Q. First of all, who is Sergeant Rossi? A. He was a watch commander at West L.A. Q. Do you know approximately what time it was that he arrived? A. No. Q. When you say you showed him the crime scene in front, first of all, what did you actually show him? A. We went up on the grassy area, and I pointed out the female, and the male, and the envelope, and the glove, and the hat. Q. When you say you pointed out, in what manner did you point out to Sergeant Rossi? A. I illuminated it with my flashlight. Q. And in illuminating these items, did you have occasion to illuminate the areas -- items in the vicinity of that area, also? A. Yes. Q. Did you observe any other items in the immediate vicinity at this time -- A. No. Q. -- inside the gated area? A. No. Q. Anywhere outside the gated area? A. No. Q. Did you look with your flashlight? A. Yes. Q. Now, after showing Sergeant Rossi the front crime-scene area, what, if anything, did you do? A. We walked down to Dorothy and went to the rear alley. Then we went up to the rear driveway, showed them the blood and the door that was ajar to the vehicle, and the rear gate. Q. When you say the blood, first of all, you're referring to the drop of blood you observed in the driveway? A. Yes. Q. And what, if anything, did you show him when you went to the rear gate? A. Showed him the blood on the outside and on the inside of the rear gate. Q. And you showed him all the drops that you pointed out earlier to the jury? A. Yes. Q. And who else was there, if anybody, with you and Sergeant Rossi at that time? A. I believe Sergeant Coon was there, and my partner, Officer Terrazas was there. Q. Now, after making these observations with Sergeant Rossi, what, if anything, did you do next? A. Sergeant Rossi and I went down on the walkway, approximately halfway to where the footprints ended, and I just showed them to him. Then we went back out to the alley. Q. I assume you were careful not to disturb the footprints of blood? MR. BLASIER: Objection. Leading. THE COURT: Sustained. Q. (BY MR. KELLY) Did you take measures to avoid the footsteps and drops of blood at that time? A. Yes. Q. And Officer Rossi, also? A. Yes. Q. Did you then exit the rear gate? A. Yes. Q. After exiting with Sergeant Rossi, what, if anything, did do you next? A. Went back up to the front and just waited for the detectives. Q. And did there come a time that detectives arrived there? A. Yes. Q. And would you be able to -- first of all, when you went back out front with Sergeant Rossi, could you tell me at this time whether any other police officers had arrived on the scene? A. Yes. Q. And could you tell me which officers had arrived there at that time, when you went back out front with Sergeant Rossi? A. Officer Ashton and his partner, Officer Gonzalez, Officer Goriossi, and Seigler, Officers Sanchez and Cummings. Q. Okay. Officers Heidler and Vasquez had been there, also? A. They had been there to pick up the children, that was it. Q. Okay. And I believe you indicated Sergeants Rossi and Coon were there, also, as well as you and your partner, Terrazas? A. Right. Q. So it would be fair to say that at that point when you returned out front, there had been approximately 14 police officers at the scene at that time? A. Right. Q. And on more than one occasion, with other officers, you had approached the front area of 875 South Bundy and illuminated the entire area? A. Yes. Q. And that you had also approached the walkway north of 875 Bundy at the gated area, and illuminated that entire area, also, correct? A. Yes. MR. BLASIER: Objection. Leading. THE COURT: Counsel, let the witness testify. Q. (BY MR. KELLY) You indicated that you arrived at the front of 875 South Bundy with Sergeant Rossi, awaiting the arrival of the detectives. A. Right. Q. Did any detectives ever arrive? A. Yes. Q. Approximately how long after you had first arrived on that scene did detectives arrive to South Bundy? A. Possibly two hours. Q. And which detectives arrived at that time? A. Phillips and Fuhrman. Q. Detective Phillips and Detective Fuhrman? A. Right. Q. And what was Detective Phillips' position at that time? A. He's the lead homicide detective for West L.A. Q. And Detective Fuhrman was? A. His partner. Q. And what, if anything, did you do upon their arrival there at the scene, at that time? A. Briefly went over what we had, and took them up to the front of the crime scene, showed them that -- took them around to the north side to show them Mr. Goldman's body and the pager, and we went around the rear alley. Q. When you say you showed them the front of the crime scene, how did you do that, once again? A. Used my flashlight to illuminate the body of both victims and the evidence. Q. What evidence did you illuminate? A. The envelope the glove and the hat. Then, on the north side, the pager and Mr. Goldman's body. Q. And did you illuminate the surrounding area, also? A. Yes. Q. And you said you illuminated the north side. Did you approach that separately with Fuhrman and Phillips, also? A. Right. Q. And approaching the north side, outside the gated area, did you illuminate the vicinity? A. Yes, I did. Q. Now, did you on observe any items of evidence as you came up that side? A. Just a pager. Q. Other than the pager, nothing else? A. No. Q. That was your second time up there with your flashlight? A. Right. Q. Now, you then proceeded to the rear of South Bundy? A. That's correct. Q. What, if anything, did you do at the rear of 875 South Bundy with Fuhrman and Phillips? A. Showed them the vehicle, the blood on the driveway, blood on the gate. Q. When you say you showed them the blood on the driveway, what manner did you point it out to them? A. With my flashlight. Q. Was anybody else with you besides Phillips and Fuhrman? A. Sergeant Rossi. Q. And after pointing out the blood in the driveway, where did you go to next? A. To the gate, with Detective Fuhrman. Q. And you indicated you showed them the blood on the gate at that time? A. Yes, I did. Q. What manner did you show him the blood on the gate at that time? A. Using my flashlight. Q. You showed all the blood spots that we had displayed earlier? A. On the gate, right. Q. And while you were at the back gate with Detective Fuhrman, what, if anything, did Sergeant Rossi and Detective Phillips do? A. They walked approximately halfway up the walkway, to, I assume, where the blood drops, the footsteps ended. Q. And then what? A. Then they came back out. Q. And did you show the blood on the back gate to Sergeant Rossi? A. Yes, I did. Q. And was Sergeant Phillips there also, when the blood on the back gate was pointed out? A. Detective Phillips. Q. Detective Phillips? A. Initially when I showed it to Sergeant Rossi, he wasn't. When I was standing there with Fuhrman, he was. Q. After they returned back to the rear gate area, Rossi and Phillips, what, if anything, did you do next, sir? A. Detective Phillips, Detective Fuhrman, myself, entered the house through the garage. And we did a walk-through on the house, and we went out on the front landing. Q. When you first all -- when you went to do a walk-through of the house, did you go through the entire house, as you had on the prior occasion with Wally? A. Yes. MR. KELLY: You want to take a break now? THE COURT: Ten-minute recess. Don't talk about the case; don't form or express any opinions. (Recess.) (Jurors resume their respective seats.) (The following proceedings were held at. The bench:) THE COURT: Not my problem. MR. PETROCELLI: We'll try to work on it during the afternoon luncheon. Okay. We have been trying with some lack of SUCCESS. THE COURT: Okay. (Reviewing notes.) (The following proceedings were held in open court in the presence of the jury:) MR. KELLY: Can I proceed, Your Honor? THE COURT: (Nods in the affirmative.) Q. (BY MR. KELLY) Officer, before the break you had indicated that you had entered the rear of 875 south Bundy with Detective Phillips and Fuhrman? A. Right. Q. And did anybody else accompany you at that time? A. No. Q. And what did you do upon entering the premise? A. We did a quick walk through of the house and we went out on the front landing. Q. When you arrived the at the front landing what, if anything, did you do at that time? A. I illuminated the area of the bodies with my flash light, showed him the bodies and the evidence, the foot steps leading westbound on the walkway. Q. Other than the foot steps, what other evidence did you illuminate and point out to them? A. The drop of blood before the front door and the drop of blood westbound. Q. Did you illuminate the front area also where the bodies were? A. Yes. Q. And did you illuminate any of the evidence in that area? A. Yes, I did. Q. And what evidence was that? A. The two bodies, the envelope, the glove and the hat. Q. Did you observe any other items at this time in the vicinity? A. No. Q. After that, what happened? What did you do next, if anything? A. I -- we noted that Detective Phillips and Detective Fuhrman both, Detective Spangler had arrived. We all three went back in the house. Q. Through the front door? A. Right. Detective Fuhrman and I stayed in the house. Detective Phillips went out and Detective Spangler through the rear. Q. You say you and Detective Fuhrman stayed in the house. What area of the house did you stay; and Phillips and Spangler? A. In the kitchen. Q. Were the lights on in the kitchen at this time? A. Yes. Q. By the way, what was Detective Fuhrman wearing that night when you were in the kitchen with him? Do you recall what clothing he had on? A. He had a light colored, like a white shirt and like khaki pants. Q. Did he have any jacket on? A. No. Q. Sports coat? A. No. Q. What happened next when you were in the kitchen with Detective Fuhrman then? A. We just stayed in there until Detective Phillips and Lieutenant Spangler came in, then I went out to the rear alley with my partner. Q. And what did you do next after you were out there with your partner? A. Just maintained the perimeter security. Q. And did anybody else arrive out back at any particular time while you were on guard at the rear location and securing the area? A. Later I saw a photographer and then Vannatter arrived later. Q. Let's take them one at a time. First of all, when the photographer arrived at the rear, there was an LAPD photographer at time? A. Yes, he worked S.I.D. Q. What does S.I.D. stand for? A. Scientific investigation division. Q. And what, if anything, did you say to him when you arrived? A. I pointed out evidence, told him not to step in it or step on it. Q. And what evidence did you point out to him? A. The blood drop on the driveway. I believe there was some change and that's about it. Q. Okay. Other than that evidence, did you point anything else out to him? A. No. I told him about the ice cream in the house, just to be careful, not to knock it over if he went in. Q. Other than that, anything else? A. No. Q. Was it your duty to work with the photographer or point out evidence for him to photograph in any way? A. No, I just did it so he wouldn't disturb any evidence. Q. Now, after that, you indicated that this was a time that Detectives Lange and Vannatter arrived also? A. Right. Q. And first of all, what was their position in law enforcement at this time? A. They're in robbery homicide. I was told they were going to take over the scene. Q. And where were you when they first arrived? A. In the rear alley. Q. Did you have any conversation with them at this time? A. No. Q. Okay. Did you point anything out to them at this time? A. No. Q. Was anybody accompanying them? Was anybody with the two of them at this time when you saw them in the rear? A. I believe Detective Phillips. Q. And did there ever come a time, in the rear, that you had a conversation with either one of those Detectives? A. I can't remember if it was Lange or Vannatter. I think it was Lange told my partner I had to write out a brief statement. Q. In terms of your observations that morning? A. Right. Q. And did you write out the narrative of your observations? A. Yes. Q. And in writing that out, is that something you would do in the ordinary course of business? A. Right. Q. Is that part of your official police duties? A. Yes. Q. And when you wrote them out that morning, was it more or less contemporaneous with the observations that you made that morning also? A. Yes. MR. KELLY: Your Honor, at this time, I'd like to, first of all, ask the witness if he recognizes these. (Witness reviews document.) THE WITNESS: Yes, I do. MR. KELLY: This is exhibit number 883. MR. BLASIER: May I look at that? THE WITNESS: 833. MR. KELLY: 833, I'm sorry. (The instrument herein described was marked for identification as Defendant's Exhibit No. 833.) MR. KELLY: Any objection? MR. BLASIER: No. MR. KELLY: Okay. Q. (BY MR. KELLY) Are those the notes you made that morning for Detective Lange? A. Yes. MR. KELLY: It's my understanding that defense has stipulated as to their admission into evidence. MR. BLASIER: That's correct. (The instrument herein described was. received in evidence as Defendant's Exhibit No. 833.) Q. (BY MR. KELLY) In those notes, Officer, is it correct you put all your observations down in there at that time? A. Just basically what we did when we arrived and anything that was really out of the ordinary. Q. Okay. And you'd included the blood on the back gate; is that correct? A. Yes. Q. Now, did there come a time that you returned to the property of 875 south Bundy? A. Yes. Q. And do you recall approximately what time that was? A. It was possibly 5:30, 5:20. Q. And who, if anybody, did you meet with or confirm with at this time? A. Detective Phillips and Fuhrman. Q. Okay. Anybody else? A. No. Q. And after you met with them, what, if anything, happened next? A. Detective Phillips gave me a phone and asked me for directions to Rockingham and told me to call me if he needed anything. Q. And did they then leave 875 south Bundy? A. I would assume. Q. Okay. Did you even see them leave? A. No. Q. What did you do after you were given that cellular phone? A. Put it in my car and stood around the front of the location? Q. And where was your car located at this time. A. Directly in front of the walkway. Directly in front of 875 south Bundy. Q. You had moved your black and white from the rear of 875 to the front? A. Right. Q. Of 875. Now, after Detective Phillips and Fuhrman left at 5:30, did you have occasion to see them again? A. Little later. Possibly an hour later. Q. Okay. And under what circumstances did you happen to see them? A. I saw Detective Fuhrman and the photographer approaching the crime scene and then Detective Fuhrman was pointing to the evidence and the photographer took a picture. Q. Do you recall what evidence Detective Fuhrman was pointing at? A. The believe and the hat. Q. Okay. If I could see number 92, Steve. Now, do you recognize that photograph? A. Yes. Q. Okay. Is that the photograph you just referenced Detective Fuhrman pointing at the glove and the hat that morning? A. Yes, it is. Q. And you actually observed the photographer take that photograph at that time? A. Yes, I did. Q. Okay. And you can remove that now, sir. And can you just flip number 40 up there? (Steve displays 40.) Is that a close up of the same photograph you observed him taking, Detective Fuhrman? A. Yes. Q. Is that the glove and the hat as they appear that morning when you first arrive at 12:13 on June 13? A. Yes. Q. And Steve, could you put the number 92 back up again? (Steve complies.) Q. Are you able to see what type of shoes Detective Fuhrman has on in that photograph? You can get up, Officer, and look over there? A. They appear to be dress shoes. I don't know. Q. Don't know whether they're loafers or -- A. No. Q. You can remove that photo. (Steve complies.) Did there come a time that you were relieved of your post of 875 south Bundy? A. Yes. Q. Approximately what time was that? A. 7:15. Q. And how long prior to you being relieved of your post did you observed those photographs being taken from what Detective Fuhrman pointed to the evidence? A. Possibly 40 minutes, 45 minutes. Q. So was it starting to get light out at that time? A. Yeah, it was dawn. Q. And one of the one other things: Did you have any contact with Detective Phillips around the same time that those photographs were being taken? A. Yes, I did. Q. And what was that? A. I saw him on the east side of the street talking to some other people and I took him his phone back. Q. Was that before or after you observed those photographs being taken? A. It was just after. Q. And when you were relieved at 7:15 that morning, was that your last involvement in terms of the any preservation or investigation of this particular homicide? A. Yes. MR. KELLY: I have no further questions. CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR. BLASIER: Q. Officer Riske, good morning? A. Good morning. Q. My name is Bob Blasier and I represent Mr. Simpson. As I understand your testimony, one of your responsibilities was to secure the crime scene so that the evidence could be collected properly? A. That's correct. Q. Now, when you were at the academy, did you receive any training in crime scene processing? A. Not that I know. Q. In fact, they just glossed over that topic at academy, didn't they? A. That's correct. Q. And prior to the time that you were at this particular scene, had you received any training at all in terms of how evidence is collected for a possible DNA testing? A. No. Q. Did you have any level of knowledge at all as to the quantities of biological material that might be enough to result in a DNA test? A. No. Q. Did you have any training at all in the area of how evidence might be contaminated with other biological fluids? MR. KELLY: Objection. Relevance. THE COURT: Sustained. Q. (BY MR. BLASIER) What is the crime scene log.. A. Crime scene log is just a log of people's names and the times they arrived. Q. And I'm sorry? A. And leave. Q. And that's a very important document to record who's at the crime scene; isn't it? A. Yes. Q. Is that standard procedure at a homicide scene particularly? A. Particularly, yes. We use them a lot. Q. And who's responsibility is it to ensure that the log is accurate? A. The person that does it. Q. And when an officer arrived at the scene, whose responsibility is it to check in? A. The officer. Q. The officer who arrives at the scene? A. The keeper of the log should chase him down if he doesn't check in himself. Q. And who is the officer that kept the log at this crime scene? A. I believe it was Officer Cummings. Q. Do you recall when that log was started? A. No, I don't. Q. Let me show you exhibit 846. May I have a stipulation? MR. KELLY: Yeah. Q. (BY MR. BLASIER) The Bundy crime scene log, why don't you take a look at that. Does that look like the log of activity at the Bundy crime scene? A. Looks like a crime scene. I never saw the log until the trial. Q. 829. MR. PETROCELLI: 829. MR. BLASIER: 829. THE COURT: Excuse me. MR. BLASIER: The exhibit is 829. Q. (BY MR. BLASIER) What time did you arrive at Bundy? A. 12:13. Q. Now, you were in uniform on June 13, , were you not? A. Yes, I was. Q. And what color is that uniform? A. It's actually a dark blue. It looks like -- Q. Blue back. What type of material is the uniform made of? A. Wool. Q. Are all the officers, the uniform officers wearing the same color? A. Same color, yes. Q. Uniform. Hundred percent wool? A. You can buy them polyester but I don't do it. Q. Now, when the witness's stopped you and described that there was a dead woman up the walkway, did they point out the body to you at that time? A. No. Q. Where were you standing when you were told that? A. On the east curb in front of 874 south Bundy. Q. Now the east curb would be which side of the street? A. The east side. Q. Which side in relation to where the bodies were found? A. The opposite side. Q. And where did you go from there? A. Over to the gas area 875. Q. How did you -- did you cross the sidewalk at that time? A. I crossed the street. Q. And did you cross the sidewalk as well? A. No. Q. How did you get to the grassy area without crossing the sidewalk? A. We went in the direction of the grassy area. We didn't go on the grassy area. We were standing -- Q. Okay. So where did you stop? A. On the strip of the grass before the sidewalk, before -- Q. Between the sidewalk and the street? A. Right. Q. And it was -- you were able to see Nicole Brown Simpson's body from that point, correct? A. Not at first, no. Q. Well, at some point, your were able to see the body from that location, weren't you? A. Right. Q. And there was actually light coming from the inside of the condominium because the door was open, correct? A. There was a little bit of light coming out of the door but the lights on the interior were off. Q. The interior lights of the condominium were off? A. They were down. Q. Were they down or were they off? A. They were down. Q. How do you know that they were down as opposed to on at full intensity? A. I don't. Q. At what point did you become aware that you could see bodies from where you were standing on the grassy area? A. After we had been directed by the witnesses. Q. And so you look in that direction at that time and you could see Nicole Brown Simpson's body? A. Using my flashlight, yes. Q. Can you see it without your flashlight? MR. KELLY: Objection. Hypothetical. He didn't have the opportunity to. He indicated he saw it with his flashlight. THE COURT: Sustained. Q. (BY MR. BLASIER) Did you look without your flashlight at all? A. No, I didn't. Q. Let me show you exhibit 1439. I apologize for the picture. Does this appear to be a picture of a view that you had from the grassy area? (The instrument herein described was marked for identification as Defendant's Exhibit No. 1439.) A. Yes. Q. Do you know when that picture was taken? A. No. Q. Now, describe the lighting along the walkway. MR. KELLY: Objection. At what time? THE COURT: Sustained. Q. (BY MR. BLASIER) In the morning, when you saw the body for the first time, what was the lighting along the walkway? A. It was dark. Q. Was there a Malibu light on along the walkway? A. No. Q. Now, the lighting coming from the front door -- You can take that off. (Indicating to view screen.) When did you first notice that? A. The second time I approached her. Q. Now, the first time you approached, did you cross the sidewalk, the sidewalk that runs parallel to the street? A. I don't believe so, no. Q. How did you get to the grassy area without crossing the sidewalk? MR. KELLY: Objection, argumentative. THE COURT: It's a question. Overruled. THE WITNESS: I don't understand the question. Q. (BY MR. BLASIER) At some point you got to the grassy area between the condo and the sidewalk? A. Right. Q. Correct. How did you get there without crossing over the sidewalk? A. I crossed the sidewalk. Q. When you crossed the sidewalk, did you see anything unusual? A. Bloody paw prints. Q. Now, you saw bloody paw prints in what direction were they going? A. South. Q. Did you follow those paw prints at any time to see how far south they weren't? A. Yes. Q. How far south did they go? A. Just to the corner of Dorothy and Bundy. Q. Did they stop there? A. Yes. Q. Now, you walked around from the front of the condominium and around the back to the alley several times during the course of that evening, right? A. Right. Q. And the paw prints, from your observation, never went up Dorothy. They ended at the corner of Dorothy and Bundy? A. As far as I recall, yes. Q. Was there ever a canine unit called out to determine whether a path could be found of the perpetrator or perpetrators leaving? A. No. MR. KELLY: Objection, Your Honor. THE COURT: Excuse me. MR. KELLY: Relevant. THE COURT: Sustained. Q. (BY MR. BLASIER) When you got there, did you make any effort when you found the bodies to determine whether a perpetrator or perpetrator had just left? MR. KELLY: Objection. Relevance. THE COURT: Sustained. Q. (BY MR. BLASIER) Now, when you made your first trip up the area of the bodies, you walked first on the grass and then through the dirt area? A. No. Q. How did you walk? A. Through the foliage to the left of the walkway. Q. How far to the left of the walkway? A. Just to the left of the walkway. Q. Okay. So you walked in the closest area to the walkway without actually getting on the walkway? A. Right. Q. Did you check at all for any footprints along that dirty area before you walked there? A. No. Q. How did you check? A. With my flashlight. Q. What was the ground area like? A. It was just loamy soil covered with plants. Q. Did you notice any cars parked either along Bundy or Dorothy? A. No. Q. Did you ever do a check to see what cars were parked in the vicinity? A. Me personally, no. Q. Now, when you first saw the blood on the walkway, where were you standing when you first noticed that? A. On a grass between the street and the sidewalk. MR. BLASIER: I'd like you to look at -- what number is this? MR. P. BAKER: 32. Q. (BY MR. BLASIER) I'd like you to take a look at exhibit No. 32. Now, when you first observed blood on the walkway, how far down the walkway had it moved? A. About the mid point. Q. Okay. Can you tell me, I'm going to point to what I think is the mid point, does this look about the area there? A. It was about there. Q. Okay. There -- so there was no blood at that point, from that point out to the sidewalk? A. Just paw prints. Q. What time was that? A. Possibly 12:15. Q. It was shortly after you arrived? A. Right. Q. After you observed the blood halfway down the walkway, what did you do? A. Requested an ambulance and a back up and additional units. Q. And how did you do that? A. From my radio. Q. And do you recall what you said on your radio? A. No. Q. What did you do from there? A. Just approached the female through the bushes to get a better look and I observed the male against the fence. Q. I'm sorry? A. Observed the male laying against the fence. Q. What did you do then? A. I told my partner to go grab on to the witnesses so they didn't leave. Q. Now, where was Officer Terrazas? He was your partner, correct? A. Yeah. Q. Where was he when you were walking up over the bushes and looking at the bodies? A. He was in the grassy area to the left of the bushes. Q. So it was at this point that you told him to go talk to the witnesses. Which particular witnesses were you referring to? A. The female and the male. Q. What did you do next? A. The second time we approached, we stepped across her body and went towards the house. Q. And as you went toward the house, you went up on the landing, correct? A. Right. Q. And you went inside the house at that point? A. Right. Q. Now, before you went inside the house, you observed that the door was more than halfway open, correct? A. Right. Q. And what kind of lighting was there on the inside? Where were the lights located? A. I believe the lights in the kitchen were on. Q. How about the lights in the front area, in the living room area? A. Not that I recall, no. Q. Now the living room area was the first area that you go into when you -- A. Right. Q. -- Go in the front door, correct? Now, when you went in the house, had you conducted any kind of inspection for possible trace evidence in the house. MR. KELLY: Objection. Relevance. THE COURT: Sustained. Q. (BY MR. BLASIER) When you walked into the house, you looked for possible ransacking and possible blood, correct? A. Looked for bloody -- for the prints or blood drops. Q. Did you look for anything else? A. No. Q. And when you went into the house, you then made a phone call as soon as you got in the house? A. Right. Q. And the phone was back in the kitchen, wasn't it? A. It was right in the kitchen, dining room. Q. Did you pick up the phone with your hand? A. No. Yes. Q. You have any blood on your hand? A. No. Q. Did you give any thoughts to the idea that there might be fingerprints on the phone? A. Sure. Q. Did you make any effort to preserve fingerprints on the phone? A. No. Q. Now, from that telephone, the first call you made was to? A. The only call I made. Q. The only call you made was to the watch commander, right? A. Right. Q. And who was that? A. Sergeant Rossi. Q. Tell me exactly what you told him? A. Told him we had a double homicide on Bundy and it was my belief that Mr. Simpson was somehow involved because of the photos and the return address on the envelope. Q. So you told the watch commander in your first telephone call that you thought Mr. Simpson was somehow involved? A. Right. Q. What did you do from there? A. We exited the house. My partner went and grabbed onto the male and the female and the dog. I went around to the north side and checked Mr. Goldman to see if he was alive. Q. When you went around to the north side, again, you're walking out on the grassy area outside the gated area of the condo? A. Right. Q. Correct. And you're walking around to the house that's to the north of 875 south Bundy? A. That's correct. Q. And were you by yourself at that time? A. Yes. Q. Now you walk around and from what location did you observe Mr. Goldman? A. From outside the fence and north residence. Q. And you had your flashlight? A. Yes, I did. Q. Can you tell me what you did? A. Illuminated the area looking for any evidence and I approached Mr. Goldman and I touched his eyeball to see if he was alive. Q. How did you touch his eyeball? A. With my finger. Q. What else did you do? A. Just after I determined he was dead, I left the area. Q. Did you use your flashlight to look in his pupils? A. Yes, I did. Q. Let me show you exhibit 38. It's already been introduced. Is that a photograph of Mr. Goldman's body -- A. Yes. Q. -- At the time you first observed him? A. Yes, it is. Q. Now, is it your testimony then you were able to shine a light in his eyes as well as touch his eyeball from the other side of that metal gate? A. That's correct. That's the metal fence actually, it's not a gate. Q. Okay. The metal gate in the background? A. That's a metal fence in the background. Q. I'm sorry, metal back -- Let me show you this photo on the Elmo, if you get a chance. MR. MEDVENE: Mr. Baker, can I get the number, please. MR. BLASIER: 38. Same one. MR. KELLY: Same pictures. MR. BLASIER: Same picture. Q. (BY MR. BLASIER) Is it your testimony that that picture accurately portrays the distance between Mr. Goldman's body and the back fence? A. Yes. Q. Now how did you reach through the fence? A. Just reached between the bars. Q. After you did that, what did you do next? A. I went back out to the street with my partner. Q. Where did you go from there? A. Additional units showed up and my Sergeant showed up and we discussed what we had and what we were going to do about it. Q. And from there you went where? A. Officer Wally and I entered the house and served it. Q. Now, up to this point, you had not walked along the north walkway where the bloody shoe prints were, correct? A. Correct. Q. And after you went into the back of the house, at what point did you go to the front landing? A. I don't understand the question. MR. KELLY: Objection. MR. BLASIER: You went into the back of the house and where did you go? MR. KELLY: Objection. Misstates his testimony. THE COURT: It's a question. THE WITNESS: I didn't enter the back of the house. Q. (BY MR. BLASIER) You entered the front of house with Officer Wally, correct? A. (Nods in the affirmative.) Q. And at that point, did you notice anybody's shoe prints? A. Extending past the residence, not inside the house, no. Q. Okay. But did you notice any in the area of the bodies? A. Yes. Q. Can you describe the positions of those shoe prints? A. There was a -- like a heel print on a walkway in front of her body. Then there was footprints up the steps and westbound on the landing towards the rear. MR. BLASIER: Stipulate to the admission of 87? MR. KELLY: Yeah. (The instrument herein described was marked for identification as Defendant's Exhibit No. 87.) (The instrument herein described was received in evidence as Defendant's Exhibit No. 87) Q. (BY MR. BLASIER) I'm going to have you look at exhibit 87. That appear to be a diagram of an overhead view of the location of the bodies. Can we back that up a little? Okay. Does that appear to be diagram of an overhead area of where the bodies were up to the front door? A. Yes. Q. And can you show us with a pointer where the front door is in that diagram? A. No. Q. You can't? Now, did you observe any blood drops in the area of the bloody shoe prints in that diagram? A. I see one before the front door but I'm not going to testify to this diagram, no. Q. But did you see any blood drops to the left of any bloody shoe prints in the area of the bodies? A. Leaving the bodies, between the bodies and the front door, yes. Q. How many? A. One. Q. Where was that located? A. It was just prior to the front door. Q. And how far was the front door from the bodies? A. 30 feet, 40 feet. Q. So within -- from the bodies up to the front door, there were no drops other than the one by the front door to the left of the shoe prints, correct? A. Correct. Q. Now, the one by the front door -- well, let me ask you about in the back. The blood drops that you saw in the back, how many did you find in the driveway? A. I didn't find any in the driveway. Q. How many did you see in the driveway? A. One. Q. And where was that in relation to the jeep? A. I believe it was north of the jeep. Q. Was that the left of any bloody shoe prints? A. The bloody shoe prints didn't extend that far back. Q. That's a no? A. Correct. Q. How many drops did you see the entire time that you would describe as being to the left of the shoe prints? A. I don't know. I didn't count them. Q. More than three? A. I don't know what the total is. I didn't count them. Q. More than two? A. More than one. I didn't know. I didn't count them. Q. When you observed the ice cream, did you make any effort to look at ice cream to determine whether it had fully melted or not? A. No. MR. KELLY: Objection. Relevance. THE COURT: Sustained. Q. (BY MR. BLASIER) Did you make any effort to preserve the ice cream? A. No. MR. KELLY: Objection. THE COURT: Sustained. What's the relevance? Q. (BY MR. BLASIER) One of your jobs on a crime scene is to preserve it so it does not -- the crime scene does not change in such a way that it destroys your ability to determine such things as time of death? MR. KELLY: Objection. THE COURT: Overruled? THE WITNESS: It's more preservance, nothing disturbed by other people. Q. (BY MR. BLASIER) Is one of your goals not to keep the crime scene static in the sense of the same way as when you discover it? A. Yes. Q. Did you make any effort to do that with the ice cream? A. No. MR. KELLY: Objection. THE COURT: Sustained. Q. (BY MR. BLASIER) Now, when you went inside the condominium, the radio was on, correct? There was music playing? A. Right. Q. Did you make any determination whether that was a CD or whether it was a radio? A. No. Q. Did you see any candles lit in the living room? A. I believe there were. I don't recall. Q. And you saw candles lit in the master bathroom? A. Master bathroom. Q. How many candles were there and where were they situated? A. In the bathroom. Q. Um-hum? A. There was three and they were to the west of the bath tub on a -- there's a little landing. Q. And the bath tub was filled with water? A. Correct. Q. Did you make any determination whether the water was hot? A. No. Q. When was the first time that you walked out the north alleyway or that you walked along that back alleyway? A. When I went to tell my partner that we were bringing the children out. Q. And which direction did you walk it from? A. From the east to the west. Q. So that would be from the front to the back? A. Right. Q. And who did you walk that with? A. Me. Q. Can you describe what's on either side of that walkway as you walk toward the back? A. The house was on one side and there was a fence on the other. Q. Is there any dirt area between the walkway and the wall on the right wall on the north? A. I don't recall. I don't believe so. I don't recall. Q. Now, there was a lot of foliage in the area of where the bodies were found and also extending along the north walkway; is there not or wasn't there? A. In the front, yes. I don't recall where it is. Q. Now, the back gate, when you got there, the back gate was already open, correct? A. It was closed. Q. Was it latched? A. I don't believe so. Q. You were able to open it with your flashlight, correct? A. Pushed it open with my flashlight, Q. And after you pushed it open, what did the gate do? A. Stayed open. Q. So the gate didn't automatically swing shut and latch? A. No. Q. Did you make any determination whether the latch on the gate was stuck open or was operable? A. No. Q. Now, when the children were taken out, you asked Sydney Simpson a question, did you not? A. I don't recall. Q. You asked her if her dad was OJ Simpson, didn't you? MR. KELLY: Objection. Hearsay. THE COURT: Sustained. MR. KELLY: Ask the question be stricken. THE COURT: Stricken. Q. (BY MR. BLASIER) Did you make any effort to find out who the children's father was? A. I think I asked her who her dad was and she told me OJ Simpson. I didn't ask her directly, OJ Simpson, no. MR. KELLY: Objection. Ask the answer be stricken. THE COURT: Stricken, not relevant. MR. BAKER: I object. Goes to state of mind of this witness. THE COURT: That was my ruling on the objection. If you want to object to my ruling, I don't think that's possible. Q. (BY MR. BLASIER) Now, the bedrooms, where those bedroom was located, one of the bedrooms looked out to the back alleyway, correct? A. I don't remember if this was a window in there or not. Q. Now, the blood on the back gate, did you make any kind of diagram at the time you observed that or any time that morning memorializing exactly where the spots were on the back gate? A. No. Q. And I believe you testified on direct that the drops and the blood on the back gate were moist, correct? A. They appeared to be fresh, yes. Q. They appeared to be moist? A. (Nods in the affirmative.) THE COURT: He said they appeared to be fresh. Q. (BY MR. BLASIER) Well, you said on direct that they were moist, didn't you? A. Yes. Q. Now, did they keep the same appearance from the time you first saw them until you showed Detective Fuhrman those drops in the back gate? A. As far as I recall, yes. MR. BLASIER: Can I have 81? Q. (BY MR. BLASIER) Let me show you exhibit that we've introduced. Now, you see the tags down on the bottom of the gate? A. Yes, I do. Q. Those tags weren't there on the 13, were they? A. Not while I was there, no. Q. This picture wasn't taken on the 13th, was it? A. I don't know. MR. BLASIER: Could we look at 82, please? Q. (BY MR. BLASIER) Looking at exhibit number 82, when you observed the blood, those cards weren't there, were they? A. No. Q. When the photographer came, what time was that? A. I don't know. Q. You have any recollection when the photographer got there in relation to the Detectives? A. No. He got there before. Q. Before the detectives? A. (Nods in the affirmative.) Before Detective Vannatter and Lange. Q. Now, you showed the photographer the blood in the back driveway, correct? A. Right. Q. What else did you show him? A. The change. Q. The change? A. I told him about the ice cream. Q. You see a plastic cart in the driveway in the back? A. No. Q. You never told the photographer about anything on the back gate, did you? A. No, I didn't. Q. Now, give me your best estimate of when Detective Fuhrman and Phillips arrived? A. Probably 2:00, 2:15. Q. And where did you first see them? A. You saw them parking their cars on the southeast corner of Bundy and Dorothy. Q. And where are you -- were you standing? A. I was standing just to the south of 875 in the street. Q. Where did Detective Fuhrman and Phillips go first? A. I believe they came out and talked to my watch commander. Q. I'm sorry, talked to? A. My commander, watch commander Sergeant Rossi. Q. What did they do next? A. I showed them the front of the location. Q. And about what time was that? A. Just shortly five, ten minutes after they arrived. Q. What's your best estimate? A. 2:20 maybe. Q. Now, Your Honor, we have a copy of a chart that's from a different exhibit which we're going to have to give a new number to. MR. KELLY: Could we see it, please? MR. BLASIER: 2077 (sic). (The instrument herein described was marked for identification as Defendant's Exhibit No. 2097.) Q. (BY MR. BLASIER) 2097. Let me write on it. And I better write Officer Riske's name on it. Okay. Could we put this on the Elmo, please. Can you see that diagram very well, Officer Riske? A. Not really, no. Q. Let me give you a copy of it. Could you take a look at the copy in front of you and does that appear to be an overhead view of the condominium of Bundy? A. Yes. Q. Now, now your testimony is that Detective Fuhrman and Detective Phillips were shown, by you, the front area of the condominium at about 2:20? A. Right. Q. Could we write a 2:20? (Steve complies.) Again, you showed them the same path that you took up the grass and along the side of the walkway? A. Yeah. Q. Up the grass area? A. Went up the grass area and went up the north side by Mr. Goldman's body. Q. Let's put an F1. Yeah. Draw a line down. F1 at 2:20 AM. And approximately how long did that take? A. Five or ten minutes. Q. And where did Detective Phillips and Fuhrman go from there? A. We walked down Bundy, westbound on Dorothy to the rear of the -- up the alley to the rear driveway. Q. So this would be all the way around the block, in essence, to the back of the condominium, correct? A. I wouldn't say around the block, no. Q. Well? A. Down to Dorothy, mid block up the alley. Q. Okay. Then when you got to the alley, what did Detective Fuhrman do? A. He walked with me and Detective Phillips to the rear driveway, showed him the jeep, the blood on the driveway, the change and then we went to the rear gate. Q. Now, when you went to the rear gate, you went to the rear gate with Detective Fuhrman? A. Detective Fuhrman, Detective Phillips and Detective Ross. Q. What time was that? A. It was probably 2:35 or so. Q. Okay. A. 2:40. Q. So you're back in the driveway area? MR. KELLY: Your Honor, I'm going to object to any times being placed in the diagram. It's, in affect, placing testimony on an exhibit. THE COURT: It's his exhibit. Overruled. Q. (BY MR. BLASIER) Let's draw an F2 there. And I'm sorry, the time estimate was what, 2:35, 2:40? A. 2:40, 2:35. Q. 2:35 to 2:40. And what happened after that? A. Detective Fuhrman and I stopped at the rear gate and Detective Phillips and Sergeant Rossi continued on midway down the path. Q. So Detective Fuhrman did not walk in the back walkway, the north walkway at that time? A. No. Q. And did you and Detective Fuhrman wait for Phillips and Rossi to come back? A. Yes. Q. And then where did you go from there? A. Detective Phillips, Fuhrman and I entered the house through the garage. Q. And is that when you -- when you showed him the bottom floor? A. Where? Right. Q. Did you show him upstairs -- Detective Fuhrman upstairs at that time? A. Yes, the whole condo. Q. And at this point you went out on the front landing? A. Right. Q. About what time was that? To your -- for your best approximation? A. Maybe five to 3:00 Q. About 2:55? A. It's only a guess, yes. Q. And so let's put an F3 by the front landing. Now, in this diagram, where I'm pointing, it's actually the front door, correct? A. It's actually a little south of your finger. Q. Okay. The front door is not right at the front of the condominium, is it? A. No. Q. The living room area extends out more toward the seat than the front door? A. Right. Q. So the landing area where you were was how far outside the front door? A. It's probably 30 feet to the steps. Q. Okay. You went just to the top of the steps? A. Right. Q. Okay. And after you went to the top of the steps, where did you and Detective Fuhrman go? A. Detective Fuhrman, Detective Phillips and I stood right there on the landing. Q. Okay. And for how long? A. Maybe five minutes or so. Until we were advised that Detective Spangler arrived. Q. Who advised you of that? A. I believe Sergeant Coon. Q. And what did you do then? A. We all went back through the front door. Detective Phillips and I stayed in the kitchen and -- Detective Fuhrman and I stayed in the kitchen and Detective Phillips actually went through the garage. Q. So when you and Detective Fuhrman were in the kitchen, what time we talking about? A. Right around 3:00, I don't know. Q. So let's put an F4 in the -- kitchen area is back in this area of the condominium, correct? (Indicating to exhibit.) A. I don't know. Q. Well it's to the -- A. It's to the rear, but -- Q. -- To the rear? A. On this diagram I wouldn't pick it out. Q. But there's the living room and then I walk up toward the back of the condominium and you get to the kitchen? A. It's a living room, dining room and then a kitchen. Q. Okay. So you're in the kitchen. Let's put an F4. Detective Fuhrman. And that's about what time? A. Right around 3:00 I would guess. Q. And how long did you stay in the kitchen with Detective Fuhrman? A. A couple minutes. Until the Detective Phillips and Lieutenant Spangler came back. Q. And when Phillips and Spangler came back, which direction did they come from? A. Through the garage. Q. What happened then? A. I leave the house. Q. What did Detective Fuhrman do? A. He stayed with Phillips and Spangler. Q. Now, when you left the house, when did you next see Detective Fuhrman? A. I really don't know, half hour. Q. Did you see what Detective Fuhrman was doing during that half hour? A. No. Q. Did you ever see Detective Fuhrman walking down the north alleyway at Bundy. A. No. Q. And Detective Fuhrman, this entire time, he never wore a coat, correct? A. I don't know. Q. Well, you testified on direct that he was wearing slacks and a shirt? A. Right. Q. Correct. But he did not have a coat on, did he? A. No. Q. Now, after that half hour, where did you first see Detective Fuhrman again? A. In the rear driveway. Q. And what happened at that time? A. I believe he just told me that RHD was on their way to take over. Q. About what time is that? A. I really don't know. Q. How long after you had been in the kitchen? You said that you didn't see him for about a half an hour. A. I really didn't know, sir. Q. So let's put an F5 back in the driveway. And it's at least, if you're in the kitchen about :00, you said it was about a half hour that you didn't see him. It was at least 3:30 at that point? MR. KELLY: Objection. THE WITNESS: I couldn't say what time it is. THE COURT: Excuse me? MR. KELLY: Misstates his testimony. Argumentative. He said he doesn't know what he said. He didn't know what time. THE COURT: Sustained. Save it for argument. Q. (BY MR. BLASIER) Now, it was at that point that Detective Fuhrman and Detective Phillips said that robbery homicide was on the way? A. I believe it was just -- Detective Fuhrman told me that. Q. What happened then? A. I believe he went back inside. I'm not sure. Q. Detective Fuhrman? A. Right. Q. And how long did he stay in inside, do you know? A. I don't know. Q. Did he go in there with anybody else? A. Phillips and Spangler were already in there. Q. Well, you said from the back driveway you saw Detective Fuhrman go back in. Was Phillips there in the back driveway at the same time; and Spangler? A. No, they were in the residence. Q. Okay. So when you got the information from Fuhrman that robbery homicide was on its way, he was there with you in the back driveway. Do I have that correct? A. He came out of the garage, approached me and my partner and went back inside. Q. Okay. And how long did he stay inside? A. I don't know. Q. When did you next see him? A. I really don't know. Q. Did you see him again at all? A. No, I saw him again but I don't know what the time was. Q. Did you see the photographer taking any pictures prior to the time that Detective Fuhrman and Phillips arrived? A. No. Q. When did you first notice the photographer taking pictures? A. When I was in the rear alley. Q. On which visit? A. It was after Lieutenant Spangler arrived and I left the house. Q. Okay. Before you were told about robbery homicide or after? A. I really don't know. Q. And where was he taking pictures? A. He took a shot in the alley from Dorothy and then he was just taking a couple of pictures in the rear and I told him not to step in the evidence. Q. It was still dark then. Still the middle of the night? A. Right. Q. Now at some point, Detective Fuhrman and Detective Phillips leave the -- left the Bundy scene? A. Right. Q. That before or after Vannatter and Lange arrived? A. It was after. Q. And, in fact, when Detective Fuhrman and Detective Phillips left, Detective Lange and Detective Vannatter left with them, correct? A. I don't know. I didn't see them leave. Q. After Fuhrman and Phillips left, did you see any Detectives at the Bundy crime scene until they came back? A. I believe there was two detectives from west L.A. I think one of them was Roberts and I don't remember the other one. They were just standing around. Q. Let me -- I'm sorry? A. They were just standing around in the street. Q. Let me ask you about Detective Roberts, what time did he arrive? A. I don't know. Q. When did you first see him? A. When I pulled my car around to the front, around. :00, 5:30, 5:25 maybe. Q. So this is after Fuhrman and Phillips leave, correct? A. No they approach me and my car was already in the front when they approached me and asked for directions to Rockingham and Phillips gave them the phone. Q. And that was about 5:00. I'm sorry. What would you say the time was? A. It was around 5:30, 5:25. Q. Okay. And who was there? Detective Roberts was, Detective Fuhrman was, right -- there? A. I remember seeing Roberts. Seems like he was there after they asked me directions. Q. Okay. And who all asked you directions? A. I think Phillips asked me directions. Q. Okay. And this was yours in the front area of Bundy? A. Right. Q. On the sidewalk? On the street? Where? A. On the street. Q. So back in the front area, we have Roberts and Phillips at about 5:15; is that what you said? A. No. Q. I'm sorry what did you say? A. I said I parked my car out there between :25 and 5:30. Q. Okay. That's when you saw them and were asked for directions? A. No. Q. When? A. They asked for directions about 5:30. I saw Roberts after that time. Q. All right. So at 5:30 and you see Roberts after that? A. Right. Q. And you had not seen Roberts up to that time, correct? A. No. Q. That's correct? A. That's correct. Q. Do you remember how Detective Roberts got there? Did you ever see a vehicle -- A. No. Q. -- That he came in? Now, when you -- when you were out front, as you described, with Phillips, Phillips asked for directions about 5:30, 5:35? A. 5:25. Q. 5:25, I'm sorry. That was before the picture of Fuhrman pointing at the glove was taken, correct? A. That's correct. Q. And what time was the picture of Fuhrman pointing at the glove taken? Your best approximation? A. Between 6:30 and 6:45, maybe. Q. And where were you when you saw that? A. Standing on the street directly in front of the residence. Q. And where was, well -- we know where Fuhrman was standing in the photograph. He was standing right by the body of Nicole Brown Simpson, correct? And that was about 6:30? A. Right. Q. Okay. Let's write down the Roberts and Phillips in the front area? A. I would put Roberts more towards the Bundy and Dorothy corner. Q. But in the area of the front? A. Pardon me? Q. In the area of the front, when you were asked for directions, towards Dorothy and Bundy? A. He was down at Dorothy and Bundy. Q. So let's put Roberts and Phillips. MR. KELLY: Judge, I'd object. He's not even reflecting the testimony -- THE COURT: I think -- MR. KELLY: -- The indications he's making on the diagram -- THE COURT: I don't think -- MR. BLASIER: -- I don't want to misstate anything you've said. THE COURT: That's not very accurate. MR. BLASIER: Okay. Tell me again what time Roberts -- THE COURT: I think the complaint that you're drawing on it, on a diagram that has nothing to do with where Roberts was -- MR. BLASIER: Okay. Q. (BY MR. BLASIER) Now, at about 6:30, :35 is when the pointing picture was taken? A. Right. Q. The picture of Fuhrman pointing at the glove, right? A. Right. Q. Who else was in that general area when that picture was taken, if anybody? A. A photographer. Q. Anyone else? A. No. MR. BLASIER: May I have a minute, Your Honor? Q. (BY MR. BLASIER) Now at the time that picture was taken with Mark Fuhrman pointing at the glove, it was daylight; wasn't it? A. No. Q. How dark was it? A. It was like dawn, just becoming dawn. Just started to get light. Q. Did you still need to use flashlights? A. Kind of subjective. I mean, to stand on the street to look for evidence, probably. Q. You could see clearly, Detective Fuhrman, from your advantage point out in front, you could see Detective Fuhrman clearly pointing at the glove and the picture being taken, correct? A. Um-hum. Q. You didn't need a flashlight for that? A. No. Q. Now, when did officer Spangler arrive? A. Lieutenant Spangler. Q. Lieutenant Spangler? A. Prior. Possibly 3 o'clock when we went back in the house. Q. And where were you when you first saw Lieutenant Spangler? A. In the kitchen with Detective Fuhrman. Q. And how did -- where was he when you saw him? A. Coming in the house with Detective Phillips. Q. Coming in the front of the house or the back? A. The back. Q. The back. When the picture of Detective Fuhrman pointing at the glove was taken, where was the blood on the sidewalk? How far down the sidewalk had it gone? A. Maybe to the north west or the north south sidewalk, where they meet. Q. Where the sidewalk in front of that more or less the street that meets the sidewalk that goes up to the condominium? A. Right. Q. Thank you. That's all I have. MR. KELLY: Just a couple questions, Your Honor reflex. REDIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. KELLY: Q. Officer, the diagram that was up there, before Mr. Blasier entered, a number of times, with arrows pointing there -- A. Um-hum. Q. -- Were you keeping a log of your own activities that night? A. No. Q. Constantly checking your watch? The times are written up there. Were they just approximations of yours? A. Yes. Q. Even though you know whether they were accurate approximations or not? A. No. Q. Are they just guesses? MR. BLASIER: Objection. Leading. THE COURT: Sustained. MR. KELLY: I have no further questions. THE COURT: No further -- MR. BLASIER: No further questions. THE COURT: Thank you. You're excused. THE WITNESS: Thank you very much. MR. MEDVENE: Officer Terrazas, Your Honor. MIGUEL TERRAZAS, called as a witness on behalf of Plaintiff Goldman, was duly sworn and testified as follows: THE CLERK: You do solemnly swear that the testimony you may give in the cause now pending before this court shall be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help you God? THE WITNESS: I do. THE CLERK: And would you please state and spell your name for the record? THE WITNESS: First name Miguel, M-I-G-U-E-L; last name Terrazas spelt T-E-R-R-A-Z-A-S. MR. MEDVENE: In the court, please, there are three exhibits not previously noted that have been stipulated to in terms of foundation and admissibility. Numbers 89, close up of the glove and hat, taken June 13 of '94. Number 75, the rear of Bundy a photo of the rear of the -- of Bundy. And number 76, the close up of a blood drop, the rear of Bundy. (The instruments herein described were received in evidence as Plaintiffs' Exhibit Nos. 89, 75 and 76.) DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. MEDVENE: Q. What is your occupation, sir? A. Currently working for Los Angeles police department, assigned to Valley Bureau Crash. Q. What is Valley Bureau Crash? A. I worked for valley bureau. I work any one of the valley divisions and crash stands is an acronym for communities resources and street against street hoodlums. Q. How long have you been with the LAPD? A. For approximately three and a half years. Q. And what did you do prior to that? A. I was in U.S. air force. Q. To approximately how long? A. Approximately five and a half years. Q. What was your assignment with the Los Angeles police department June 12, June 13 of 1994? A. I was assigned to the west L.A. Division uniform patrol. Q. And your duties? A. I was to respond to any kind of radio calls and suppress any kind of criminal activity out there. Q. Did you have occasion in the early morning hours of June 13 to go to 875 south Bundy? A. Yes, I did. Q. Alone or with someone? A. With my partner. Q. Who was your partner? A. Officer Riske. Q. Approximately what time did you arrive? A. Approximately 0015 hours, should be about :15 in the morning. Q. Can you put up No. 32, please? (Steve complies). Could you tell the ladies and gentlemen of the jury whether the photograph in what's been marked 32 accurately represent what you saw when you arrived? A. Yes. Q. Would you place on the board, please, exhibit 38? (Steve complies). What is that, sir? A. It's an envelope I saw. Q. And what else did you see? You can stand up and look at the photo? A. Adjacent to the envelope was the glove and the knit cap. Q. In the photo also a body? A. Yes, sir. There was a body of a white male early 20s to mid 20s. Q. Could you put up on the board exhibit 89, please? (Steve complies.) Can you take a look at 89 and tell me what that is? A. It's the glove and a knit cap. Q. And when did you first see those? A. I first saw them June 13, 1993 (sic) as I walked with my partner to the doorway, I saw them at approximately 12:20 in the morning. Q. Is that an accurate reproduction of how they appeared when you first saw them? A. Yes. Q. You mentioned seeing the female victim, the male victim, a single glove and a hat and envelope. On how many occasions in those early morning hours did you see those various other people or items? A. On two occasions. Q. And could you describe what you used, if anything, as a source of light? A. I used my flashlight which would be a streamline flashlight. Q. Can you describe how bright the light is? A. About room light maybe bright her. Q. And at the time you saw the items and the victims, was there just one flashlight on them or two? A. Be my flashlight and my partner's flashlight. Q. Now, you said on two separate occasions you saw what you indicated. Where were you on each of these occasions? A. I was at the -- I believe it was the base of the stairwell, sir, on both occasions. Q. All right. A. I think the top of the stairwell. Q. Did you see more than one glove? A. No, I only saw one. Q. Now, after viewing the evidence that you described, on the two occasions, where did you go? A. I then walked out of the walkway onto the grassy area where I met with Sergeant Coon. Q. And did you have a conversation with Sergeant Coon? A. Yes, I did. Q. And did he give you any direction? A. Yes. He told me to walk to the rear of south Bundy and guard that area. Q. And did you do that? A. Yes, I did. Q. And could you describe how you made your way from the front of 875 to the rear of 875? A. I walked southbound Bundy to Dorothy, walked westbound on Dorothy to the alleyway and northbound on the alley onto the rear of 875 south Bundy. Q. And on the way, did you use any source of illumination? A. Yes. As I reached the alleyway, I turned on my flashlight. Q. And for how long did you have on your flashlight? A. Maybe 20 minutes. Q. And where did you shine your flashlight? A. On the ground. Q. And did you observe any second glove? A. No, sir. Q. Did you make your way to the rear of 875 south Bundy? A. Yes, sir. Q. When you arrived at the rear, did you make any observation? A. Yes, I did. Q. What did you see? A. I saw a black Jeep Cherokee parked in the rear of 875 south Bundy. And adjacent to the black Jeep Cherokee towards the passenger side, I observed a drop of blood. I believe there was some change and a pendant. Q. We're going to place on the board, Officer Terrazas, what's been marked 75 and ask if you've ever previously seen the scene that that photograph depicts? (The instrument herein described was marked for identification as Plaintiffs' Exhibit No. 75.) A. Yes, I have. Q. At the time you saw that scene, was the man in the picture? A. No, sir. Q. Were the two markers in the pictures? A. No. Q. Could you tell us what, other than what the picture generally accurately represents, what you saw in the early morning hours of June 13? A. It depicts it very well. Q. If you could point to the marker that's presently in the middle, can you tell us what was by that marker? You've told us the marker wasn't there, but what was there on June 13? A. In that general area was where I saw the change and the pendant. Q. And how about to the right of that, looking at it straight ahead? A. In that area was where I saw a drop of blood. Q. Can you put on the board exhibit 76, please? (Steve complies.) We have exhibit 76. And was the 117 marker there when you saw this area in the morning hours of June 13? A. No, the marker was not there. Q. And what is the object next to it? A. It appears to be of blood. Q. And could you describe whether or not that was a drop of blood that you saw in the early morning hours of June 13? A. It appears to be the same drop of bloody observed on that night. Q. Now, the drop of blood, as you observed it that night, can you describe it? A. Bright red in color, looked moist. Q. How long were you in the rear of 875 south Bundy? A. I'd say from approximately 12:25 to about :30 in the morning. Q. And your assignment or job back there during that period of time was what? A. I was assigned by Sergeant Coon to guard that area, make sure that no Civilian personnel no unauthorized personnel were able to get in. Only Detectives or persons from S.I.D. Q. Did any unauthorized personnel get in? A. No, sir. Q. Now, while you were back in that area, did you have occasion to look around and shine your flashlight around? A. Yes, I did. Q. And in what area? A. I put my flashlight on the ground and as I walked towards the rear gate, I observed another drop of blood on the rear gate? Q. Would you put on the board, exhibit 85, please? (Steve complies.) Now, when we say the rear gate, while we put on the board what's been marked 85. Can you describe for the ladies and gentlemen of the jury what that purports to be? (The instrument herein described was marked for identification as Plaintiffs' Exhibit No. 85.) A. It appears to be the rear gate that would be leading to the rear of the residence towards the alleyway. Q. In other words, that would be a photo of the rear gate standing within the residence or outside the residence looking towards the residence? A. It would be standing from the alleyway looking towards the residence so you'd be looking east. Q. Now, was that marker that appears on the gate there at the time you saw the gate on June 13? A. No, sir, it was not. Q. Other than that, could you tell us whether or not what's been marked 85 is an accurate reproduction of the gate as you remember it that day? A. It appears to be accurate to the best of my knowledge. MR. MEDVENE: Would you put on the board exhibit 86? (Steve complies.) (The instrument herein described was marked for identification as Plaintiffs' Exhibit No. 86.) Q. (BY MR. MEDVENE) You mentioned before seeing a blood spot on the rear gate. Can you tell us what exhibit 86 purports to be, if you know? A. It appears to be the same blood spot I observed on June 13, 1994. Q. At approximately what time? A. Oh approximately 12:30, 12:35. Q. At the time you saw the blood spot, strike that. Can you tell us whether or not the blood spot appears to be in the position that you recall it that evening? A. Yes. Yes, sir. Q. With the exception of the ruler and the No. 117, tell us whether or not that picture is an accurate reproduction of what you saw, possibly putting aside the color of the blood spot? A. Yes, it is. It's accurate. Q. Do you have any memory of the coloring of the blood spot that you saw that evening? A. Bright red in color. Q. Did there come a time, some minutes after your observation, that you walked inside the gate? A. Yes, I did. Q. Can you put on the board, please, exhibit . (Steve complies.) (The instrument herein described was marked for identification as Plaintiffs' Exhibit No. 81.) Q. (BY MR. MEDVENE) Can you describe, what is exhibits 81? A. It's the rearview of the residence leading to the alleyway. And as you're looking at it, you would be standing inside the residence walkway looking west. Q. So it would be the opposite direction of the rear gate photo we say a few minutes ago? A. That's correct. Q. Now, can you tell us whether or not that photo accurately depicts what you saw the early morning hours of June 13 with the exception of the markers at the bottom of the gate? A. Yes, it does. Q. Were those marks there when you saw the gate? A. No, sir. Q. Were they, to the best of your knowledge, at some later date, put on when this actual picture was taken? A. I believe so. Q. You were not there when a picture was taken? A. No, sir. Q. Would you put 82 on the board, please? (Steve complies.) Did you see any blood on the inside of the back gate that those early morning hours on June ? A. Yes, I did sir. Q. We've placed before you what's been marked 82. And could you tell us whether or not, with the exception of the markers, that photograph accurately depicts a gate as you recall it in the morning hours of June 13, 1994? A. Yes, sir it does. Q. Where did you remember -- what are -- what do you remember seeing on the bottom of the gate? A. Towards the bottom of the gate I remember seeing some blood. On the mesh portion right along inside here and along the bottom bar, the gate up in this area. Q. Now, when you say along the bottom bar of the gate, that 115 marker, was that there that evening? A. No, sir. Q. Could you point just to the left as you look at the photo of the 115 marker and tell us whether or not what's depicted there is what you recall on June 13? MR. BAKER: Objection. Leading, Your Honor. THE COURT: Overruled. THE WITNESS: A drop of blood I observed. Q. (BY MR. MEDVENE) You were making -- I'm sorry to interrupt, you were making a circle. I just want, for the record, where were you making a circle? A. By the No. 115. Q. And you were circling, can you explain what you were circling? A. It's a -- well, it's a drop of blood with another drop of blood. Adjacent to it, several spots of blood along that bar right in here. But the one I really remember well was the big drop of blood right in here. Q. And do you recall seeing any other blood on the lower running of the back gate that's depicted in that photo? A. Yes, I remember seeing the blood right along in here. Q. When you say right along in here; is there a marker there now? A. Marker No. 116. Q. And you recall seeing that when? A. June 13, 1994. Q. Now, will you put up on the board, please, 142. (Steve complies.) (The instrument herein described was marked for identification as Plaintiffs' Exhibit No. 142) Q. (BY MR. MEDVENE) We have on the board what's been marked 142. Can you tell us whether or not you recognize what's depicted on that photo? A. Yes, I recognize it. That's the smudged blood along the top bar of the gate. Q. Was there ever a time when you saw that smudge that you just described? A. Yes, I saw it on June 13, 1994, sir. Q. Approximately? A. Approximately 12:35 in the morning. Q. From your time with the LAPD, are you familiar with what blood looks like? A. Yes, sir. Q. How so, what, in your P.D. experiences made you familiar with the blood? A. I've been to numerous calls with victims of crime where there have been bleeding and I have seen it along the ground or on different objects and recognize it to be blood, sir. Q. Any question in your mind that what you described to the jury here this morning on the side of the gate, looking from east to west and then again on the side looking from west to east, all those spots were blood that you observed in the early morning hours of June 13? A. It most definitely looked like blood to me, sir. Q. And from your observation, how did they look, again, in terms of -- A. It was -- Q. -- Appearance A. Bright red in color. Some appeared to be moist or wet looking. Q. Did you prepare any notes in the early morning hours of June 13 just generally summarize your observations? A. Yes, I did, sir. Q. Make any notes of any blood you saw on the back gate? A. Yes, I did sir. Q. One last question, Officer Terrazas. In all your time there at Bundy, all your time in the rear and all the shining of your flashlight that you told us about, did you ever see a second glove? A. No, sir. Q. Thank you very much. CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR. BAKER: Q. Officer Terrazas, what was the temperature out that night on the 13th? A. I don't know what the temperature was. Q. Around 60 degrees? A. That would be fair to say, sir. Q. And the let me go back. Just a minute, you suggested that when you got there, you walked up the left side of the walkway towards the front of the house, correct, with your partner? A. Yes, sir. Q. And you both shined your flashlight in the area and you saw the body of Ron Goldman, correct? A. Yes, sir. Q. You also saw the glove, you saw the hat, it's a knit cap, right? A. Yes, sir. Q. And the scene was awash in blood; was it not? A. Yes, sir. Q. And the blood that it was washed in went all the way from when you first observe the blood you were -- Strike that. When you first observed the scene, you were down by the sidewalk, correct? A. That's correct, sir. Q. And you looked up there and you saw the body of the of Nicole Brown Simpson up by the steps? A. That's correct. Q. Didn't have any problem observing that, did you? A. No, sir. Q. It was light enough for you to see it? A. Yes, sir. Q. And then, the blood that was from Nicole Brown Simpson or from the murders, if you will, went all the way down the trial walkway in the grout of that trial walkway to the sidewalk, correct? A. That's correct. Q. And there was -- from where you were standing in front of walkway, there was -- blood went all across the sidewalk, right? A. That's correct, sir. Q. And there was paw prints that went south on -- on Bundy, correct? A. That's correct sir. Q. And after, in fact, when you saw it, you thought that this was a river of blood coming down from the body of Nicole Brown Simpson down to the sidewalk, true? A. That's correct, sir. Q. Was it -- it was an enormous amount, true? A. Yes, sir. Q. Okay. And then you and your partner, Officer Riske, he was standing there observing exactly what you were observing as far as you could tell? MR. MEDVENE: Objection. Calls for conclusion. THE COURT: Sustained. Q. (BY MR. BAKER) He was standing there around -- you were both looking up the walkway towards the body of Nicole Brown Simpson true? A. Yes, sir. Q. And then what you did is you then went to the left of the walkway because you didn't want to disturb the blood that was coming down the walkway and that's why you walked in the foliage to the left, correct? A. That's correct, sir. Q. And as you went up the walkway, you then shined your lights over to the right or to the north and saw the evidence that you've described, true? A. No, sir. I never saw the evidence -- Q. Okay. A. -- From the foliage area, I never saw from there. Q. Okay. Now, as you got towards the house, did you go all the way up to the gate, the gated area I'm talking about the first time that you went towards the house if you done understand my questions he? A. I don't understand sir. Q. Let me have -- no, it's 89 I believe. . Pill. MR. P. BAKER: 81. That's it. MR. BAKER: Now, can everybody see that? Can you focus that any better? It's really bad. MR. P. BAKER: That's about as good as I can get it. MR. BAKER: That's a little better, thank you. Q. (BY MR. BAKER) Now, when you and Officer Riske arrived and after you were informed about the fact there was a person across the street at 875, that's what occurred; isn't it? Not, you went across, answered a call at 874? A. Yes, sir a prowler suspect now called there, sir. Q. And you had some communication with a man and a woman on woman who had a dog on a leash, right? A. Yes, sir. Q. And then you crossed. Your car was parked on the east side. Your black and white unit was parked on the east sides of -- A. That's correct. Q. -- Of Bundy? A. That's correct, sir. Q. You walked across the street on the east side of Bundy to the west side of Bundy; is that true? A. That's correct. Q. Is that true, you walked up the walkway, correct? A. That's correct, sir. Q. You looked up the walkway before you ever set foot on the sidewalk because there was blood on it, correct? A. To the best of my recollection, yes, sir. Q. And then you what you see depicted -- is this 32? MR. P. BAKER: Yes. Q. (BY MR. BAKER) What you see depicted in , that's a representation of the scene that you saw when you arrived? A. Yes, sir. Q. And the blood was trailing down through the grout and trial, threw? A. Yes, sir. Q. And there were prints of blood in the front of the walkway area, correct? A. Yes, sir. Q. And you and your partner, to be careful not to contaminate the scene or to destroy evidence, walked up through the area of the plants on the left of exhibit 32; is that correct? A. We were very careful, sir. Q. But regardless of your degree of being careful, sir, you walked on the plants that we see on the left side of 32; is that right? A. Yes, sir. I walk on this area. It would be more towards the left. Q. Okay. And you got up to the area. Did you, after you had got up towards the gate, did you then -- did you then gone into the house? A. Sir, I walked up to the foliage. My partner then walked over and in went into that gated area as I stood by on the foliage. Q. Did you ever, on the night of June 13, , go into the condominium ever? A. No, sir. Q. Did you ever follow Officer Riske into the kitchen to use the phone in the condominium? A. No, sir. MR. BAKER: Is this a good place, Your Honor? THE COURT: It is. Okay. Ladies and gentlemen, 1:30. Don't talk about the case. Don't form or express any opinions. See you at 1:30. (At 12:00 P.M. a recess was taken until Monday, October 28,1996, 1:30 P.M. of the same day.) SANTA MONICA, CALIFORNIA MONDAY, OCTOBER 28, 1996 1:40 P.M. DEPARTMENT NO. WEQ HON. HIROSHI FUJISAKI, JUDGE (REGINA D. CHAVEZ, OFFICIAL REPORTER) (The following proceedings were held in open court, outside the presence of the jury.) MR. BLASIER: I have two exhibits I neglected to move in. I will move them in, 1439 and the new one, 2097. MR. KELLY: Your Honor, with regard to 2097, I have two objections: One would be, the times that were testified to were just rough approximations and basically guesses by the witness. And secondly, there are indications put on there, such as Detective Roberts, where there's not even a setting or scenario in which to situate him, and they still placed his name and time on that. Also, I don't believe it's an accurate reflection of the geographic area or the layout of the premises, or an accurate reflection of the times and positions of people, as to what was testified to. I simply agreed to the foundation basis as to the diagram itself, and not any entries that may have been subsequently made. MR. BLASIER: These are times he testified to. There is no time by Roberts and Phillips -- whether there was testimony by Roberts and Phillips at Bundy. MR. KELLY: The last, final -- I'm sorry. Are you done? MR. BLASIER: This is straight from the testimony. MR. KELLY: That Officer Riske indicated that he could not even find the kitchen on the diagram, not unless Mr. Blasier made markings and an arrow and diagram, and set a time and situated Officer Riske in a kitchen that he was not even able to identify or locate. THE COURT: What was 1439? MR. BLASIER: 1439 was a picture outside of Bundy. THE COURT: Picture or photograph? MR. BLASIER: 1439 -- THE COURT: 1439 is received. (The instrument herein described was received in evidence as Defendants' Exhibit No. 1439.) THE COURT: 2097 is not received. You can use it in your closing argument. MR. BLASIER: Thank you, Your Honor. MR. BAKER: One other issue: That's the issue, as the court is well aware from the testimony this morning, when Officer Riske was put on the stand, Mr. Kelly asked Officer Riske, number one, to describe his duties, which were to identify evidence, preserve evidence. Then he went in detail what he did to preserve the evidence. And the point being that this jury has heard from their first witness that, basically, the LAPD collected all the evidence and preserved all the evidence and preserved the crime scene. Our view is, obviously, LAPD did not collect all of the evidence. LAPD did not preserve the evidence. And this is what we went into in detail vis a vis the opening statements. And you allowed me to do that after Mr. Petrocelli objected. And I think the Karush case, or whatever it is, is patently different than what you're talking about. We're not talking about different types of techniques; we're talking about what they have set forth in both in their opening statement and here in their first witness, that the LAPD did their job. And basically, the tenor is, there's only one suspect: That's my client. We're saying the LAPD did not do their job relative to the evidence. And every time there's an objection, the Court sustains it. And so I wanted to get a ruling relative to that, because we're not talking about collection techniques; we're talking about the absence of collection after they identified and photographed evidence at the crime scene. And we need this. This is relevant for two theories. It's relevant, one, the theory that they say LAPD did everything great and they protected the crime scene; they collected all of the relevant evidence; and there's only one suspect: That's Mr. Simpson. We say LAPD did not do everything great. They did not collect all the evidence. And the reason there was only one suspect is because of what they didn't do, perhaps, but that's for our argument. That's to be implied as circumstantial evidence. But I certainly wanted to get the Court's ruling before we went further, in view of what was a and wasn't a motion or anything else. It was just a brief relative to the questioning of witnesses and then the Court sustaining objections. So I wanted to get that cleared up before I went further with Mr. Terrazas, and very definitely before we go further into this case, sir. MR. KELLY: Your Honor, with regard to the questioning of Police Officer Riske, his testimony was, he was there to identify and preserve the evidence only, and offered absolutely no testimony as to the collection of evidence or any other procedures involved, and further investigation of the evidence or processing of it. He just basically said, I was there to preserve it and make sure it was not disturbed. And his testimony went no further than that. MR. BAKER: He said he identified it. I'm sorry; I apologize. MR. PETROCELLI: Your Honor, the position we had argued when we filed the motion originally is simply that evidence that is not collected is not relevant because they can't tie it in any way to the case. What's relevant is the integrity of the evidence that was collected and whether that evidence tends to identify or not identify Mr. Simpson. But all of the things that were not done and that might have been done, don't tell us anything, and they consume undue time; they're confusing to the jury, and indeed could well be prejudicial. MR. BAKER: Respectfully, I think they tell us a lot. They tell us about a rush to judgment; they tell us an awful lot about what was being done by the LAPD and what was not being done. These people stand exactly in the shadows of the LAPD. THE COURT: I don't think so. MR. BAKER: Well -- THE COURT: The Court, at the outset, had made a ruling; and that was on September 17. And essentially, the ruling is this: The plaintiff has the burden of proving that the defendant, and based on part of the evidence that they are offering, was a person who committed the acts resulting in the deaths. This is not a case of the defendant defending against a criminal accusation by showing the shortcomings in any of the police investigations, as to raise a reasonable as to the police officers; this is not a case against the Los Angeles Police Department for, as I said before, committing malpractice. It's not a case where the defendant is suing LAPD for not pursuing evidence that would have proved his innocence. The only issue in this case, really, is whether or not the evidence that is being offered by the plaintiff has proper foundation, and whether or not the evidence supports the plaintiffs' position with regards to connecting the defendant with the offense. Whether or not the police department did or did not act within certain protocols of police investigation or not, other than the fact that if they spoiled some evidence or affected it, the evidence of the case, some of the evidence being offered, all their shortcomings, in the Court's opinion, do not go to the issue of efficacy of plaintiffs' evidence, and I am going to continue to sustain objections thereon. MR. BAKER: So I'm clear, in terms, Your Honor called this a civil murder case, all the evidence they're putting on. THE COURT: Mr. Baker, I'm not married to any term that I may have used at one point or another. MR. BAKER: Well, when they identify evidence, are you telling us that they identify evidence by photograph? In other words, as this Court is fully aware, they have a duty to recognize, and as Officer Riske indicated, to I.D. evidence and preserve that evidence. If it's I.D.'d and preserved and then lost, I assume we get to talk about that. THE COURT: I agree. MR. BAKER: Okay. Thank you. THE COURT: All righ