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Breaking Away

Flora Jessop, and her brother Lyman, former members of Warren Jeffs' polygamist cult, offer an inside view.

Court TV Host: Chat with Flora Jessop, a former member of Warren Jeffs' polygamist cult who managed to escape. Jeffs is back in court in Utah, where a judge has ruled that Jeffs can go to trial for arranging marriages with underage girls. She was just on Catherine Crier Live, and she's joining us now to take your questions from online.

Court TV Host:Welcome, Flora Jessop, thanks for being our guest online today.

Flora Jessop: Hi, how are you? Welcome to my nightmare! I think it's great that Warren Jeffs is in court, and that he's going to get his day in court, and that the victim is going to get her day in court also. She's one of many victims and hopefully more will be able to come forward as a result of her courage.

Question from cookie: Hi Flora. I was wondering why Warren Jeffs isn't charged with polygamy. Isn't that a crime in Utah?

Flora Jessop: Polygamy is a crime in both Utah and Arizona - and a crime in the United States - and I do not understand either why Mr. Jeffs is not being charged with that crime in addition to the crimes that he has committed himself. It is very frustrating to those of us working with the many victims of the FLDS that he has been charged as an accessory rather than being charged directly with the crimes he has committed such as the molestation of children, the fraud, the fact that he has married underage children himself, and the list goes on and on. For those of us working with the victims, this is a start, but it's certainly not the end.

Question from stocking_stephers: Wow, Flora_Jessop, how did you get out?

Question from robin: How did you get out of this cult, and do you have any contact with family members still in?

Flora Jessop: Let me start from the beginning, I guess. I was married as a child bride to my cousin. Stayed with him for about three weeks, then ran like crazy. They chased me for five years after I left. I had no support, I lived on the street, I know what it's like to try and get out of this cult and to have no one there for you. That is why I now try to help those who want to escape.

Flora Jessop: As for contact with family members, my mother is listed right now as a missing person. When I started fighting for these children seven years ago, all contact with my family members was severed by Warren Jeffs and the priesthood. I do have several brothers who are out, and I have close contact with them, and that's been very rewarding, but all of my sisters remain inside the cult, and we filed a missing persons report on my mother - she has not been seen in over a year and a half. One of the things that is very important for people to understand about this cult is that growing up in polygamy, because of the numbers in the family, getting to know the brothers and sisters, even knowing your mother - you simply don't have that opportunity. I've gotten to know my brothers more in the last, oh I would say, about three years - we have more of a relationship now in three years than we did the entire time we were growing up. So even for the kids trying to get out, even if they have siblings outside the group, it's difficult for them to go to those siblings because they do not have a close relationship with them.

Question from cookie: Were you all alone during those five years?

Flora Jessop: Yes. They chased me for five years, and I just hitchhiked back and forth across the U.S. for those five years. I did get pregnant towards the end of those five years, with my daughter, and she is the reason that I stopped running from them. I realized that I could not continue to run and protect my baby, so I stood up and told them if they wanted me, to come and get me, because I was not running anymore. At that point, I realized that the men from this cult are like schoolyard bullies. They only like to pick on people who are weaker than they are, and that power comes from the fear that they have instilled in the people.

Question from cookie: So, for them to chase you, they don't want you to get out of the church no matter what?

Flora Jessop: That's a good question. For the males, for the number that are involved in polygamy, having multiple wives, it's prudent that they kick the younger males out, whereas the females are hunted if they try and leave. That's one of the reasons why I try and help the underage girls escape and have had members from the community show up at my house with guns trying to take female children back. So it's very much dependent on the gender of the child as to what the response of the cult is.

Question from Xmass_Clown: Were your brothers kicked out?

Flora Jessop: My brothers actually left. When Warren Jeffs took over, my brothers opted to leave rather than stay and follow Warren Jeffs. One of my brothers just shipped to Iraq on Monday. Freedom means a lot to him.

Question from JUSTICEforELVES: Hi, I was wondering why do people join these cults? What kind of power do people like Jeffs and Koresh have to "brain wash" folks in to it?

Flora Jessop: That's a good question in relation to the FLDS, because the people involved in the FLDS did not join. In 1953, Arizona governor Pyle raided what was then known as Short Creek and tried to break this cult up. There were 253 children in the cult at that time. The 15,000 followers that Jeffs now has are the descendents of those 253 children. I like to tell people that we don't have family trees in polygamy - it's just a ball of roots, a trunk and leaves - there are no branches. And yes, the birth defects are off the charts because of this. I have 15,000 relatives - Thanksgiving is not fun at my house. Dishes are a nightmare.

Question from JUSTICEforELVES: Are there any elderly people in the cult, and if so, how old?

Flora Jessop: That's an interesting question because, well, we know of several male cult members who lived to be in their 90s. The average lifespan for a female in the FLDS is 32. There are women who are older, but they are few and far between. One of the things about being an elder female in the FLDS is because they believe that the only purpose or worth a female has is to give her husband children to build his kingdom, when you pass childbearing age, you become a servant to the wives who can still bear children.It makes life not fun for elder females.

Question from RachelC: Wait...you're saying that women only generally live to their early 30's? Why is that?

Question from robin: Why is the average life span 32?

Question from cookie: Why do they die so young?

Flora Jessop: When you take into consideration the whole dynamic of mandatory childbearing or birth every year - add that to the lack of medical care, add that to the psychological destruction inherent in polygamist homes, it's for me very easy to I guess connect why women do not live long lives. One of the more frightening aspects that we've been trying to get answers on, for several years, is the fact that 60% of the graves in Colorado City and Hilldale are children 10 and younger. There's not only not many older women but also an astounding number of babies and children who die.

Question from Lilly: What happens to a woman who cannot have children during her childbearing years?

Question from Lou: What happens to infertile females/males?

Flora Jessop: Typically, infertility is first of all, if a marriage takes place and children are not born of that union - the female is of course the cause of that, regardless - and that has happened - because males would never be not able to have children. But those females who are unable to give birth become the servants to the other women in the community. One of the most misunderstood dynamics of polygamy is the domestic violence. In these homes, it's not the physical brutality - while you do have some from the males - the majority of domestic violence is from the women to the women. To understand that, forget polygamy for a minute. Imagine taking the room next to your own bedroom and creating a space for your spouse, your mother, your sister, your daughter, your niece, and somebody you don't know. Go to bed at night and listen to your spouse make love to this other person through the wall, get up in the morning and be happy that they're a part of your family. Feelings and emotions don't change because you're born into polygamy, you're just punished if you allow them to be seen. Those natural, normal jealousies come out as brutality between the wives and on each other's children, and it is a vicious brutal lifestyle.

Question from Michlady: If I understand right Flora, incest is permitted in this cult?

Flora Jessop: Incest is not only permitted, it is accepted. They justify incest by teaching that the Virgin Mary was impregnated by God her father - he took on a man's body, and impregnated her with Jesus. They also look to the fact that Adam and Eve, their children were related, and therefore it justifies marriages of very close relatives.

Question from Xmass_Clown: Do you think Jeffs or someone under him did anything to hurt your mother?

Flora Jessop: I have gotten messages for the last seven years that my mother pays the price for everything I do. But I've also come to understand and realize that my mother pays the price whether I do anything or not, and someone has to step in and fight for the children.

Question from cookie: Do you have any happy memories of your childhood?

Flora Jessop: Yes, there are happy memories. It's interesting because while you do have happy memories of growing up there, I guess the bad memories of growing up and just surviving and trying to get out have a tendency to overshadow what happiness you did have. So while yes, there was happiness at times, there is an underlying pain, oppression that coats it. It's difficult to explain it - just what it's like growing up there.

Flora Jessop: My brother said: it sucks. My brother just got in the car with me! My brother Lyman. He said it feels like you're in jail.

Court TV Host:Lyman Jessup is joining now as well...Thank you for being our guest online.

Lyman Jessop: It feels like you're in jail, and you don't know what the outside world is. And all your brothers and sisters that have already left are not your brothers and sisters no more. They are people that don't even exist. In their vocabulary. They teach you that when somebody leaves then they are apostates. And the people who that aren't even in the church - they teach you that they are gentiles. They still have to go up to Heaven and be taught about Jesus Christ and about the Holy Ghost. So you don't really know what the outside world is. There's no swearing. All you get to think about is Warren Jeffs. All the funerals are not about the person who passed away, they're about Warren Jeffs. It's kind of hard to understand. Once you're outside of the church, cult, whatever you want to call it, you look back on what you grew up on and what they taught you, and you wonder, where are they comin' up with this stuff? Warren is not God - and that is what he teaches the people, and he teaches them that he is the one man on earth who gets revelations from God. He teaches them that if they do not follow and say what he says, they will be damned.

Question from RachelC: Lyman, it's my understanding that young men are basically kicked out at the compound line when they reach a certain age, because they are a "threat" to the elders who want to "marry" the underage girls who would normally gravitate to the young men. At least you got out of there!

Lyman Jessop: Yes, that is correct. Adamantly.

Question from Xmass_Clown: Why hasn't the state been able to just go in and stop what's going on in these places? They know underage children are having sex with adults.

Question from mtnlaurel^: In your opinion, why has the government of Utah turned a blind eye to the abuses and frauds in this system? Is it because of the bad publicity from the Short Creek raid ?

Flora Jessop: I think there's a lot of politics involved. It politically ruined Gov. Pyle when he tried to stop it. and when you have senators like Orrin Hatch who publicly almost endorse polygamy, it becomes a tangled web of: how do we stop it, who do we go to? I think it's a political hot potato in lots of ways. Aside from that, it's a really good question, why law enforcement has failed to protect children in these cults. I think also people need to understand, it's not just Utah. We have documentation of polygamists living in 38 states. So it's not just a Utah problem, it's an American problem. And I think it's going to take the people of America, standing up and demanding that children are protected regardless, for the right thing to be done to protect these kids.

Court TV Host: Any closing thoughts?

Flora Jessop: I also want to add here, it's not just the children in polygamy who are being failed today. Children in America are being failed by our court system. Thank you very much - and shout out loud! My motto: become your own hero! And NO secrets!

Court TV Host:Thank you very much Flora and Lyman Jessop for spending this time with us today.

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