Pet Laws Transcripts August 1, 1997 9 a.m. - 10 a.m. GUESTS: JAMIE COTEL ALTMAN, GENERAL COUNSEL, ASPCA J.R. GIBSON, ANIMAL CONTROL OFFICER The following are excerpts from the viewer call-in portion of the program. Adopting a Dog Laws on Animal Control Puppy Mills Owner's Liability When a Dog Bites Someone Neighbors and Barking Dogs Getting Bitten by a Cat Tips for Buying a Pet JUNE GRASSO: Good morning. I'm June Grasso, and you're watching Legal Cafe, Court TV's daily wakeup call to the law in your life. In our first hour, we're going to talk about pets. There animal courts in this country, and we'll tell you what to do to avoid winding up in one of them, defending your dog, cat, or maybe even your pet rabbit. Dogs are common pet that can be a man or woman's best friend, but your best friend can sometimes get you into trouble. Ask one of the two million people who are bitten by dogs each year. So let's get this dog and pony show started with a trip to the Sidewalk Legal Cafe. MS. GRASSO: I'm joined by Jamie Cotel Altman to sort through some of these issue. Jamie is vice president and general counsel for the ASPCA. That's, of course, the American Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals, and she owns a dog, a guinea pig, and a cat. So you're well qualified. Good morning and thanks for being here, Jamie. ADOPTING A DOG First of all, let's, you know, talk legally about when you get a dog. What are the legal things you have to do? MS. ALTMAN: Depending on the state that you live in, generally you should license your dog. You should also make sure that the animal is spayed and neutered, make sure the animal is given vaccinations and is well -- is a well animal -- and you should generally prepare yourself for this new companion in you life, but you should definitely license your animal. MS. GRASSO: Now, why is that so important? Suppose you think that your animal's going to be in the house most of the time. MS. ALTMAN: Your animal could get out, someone could come into your home and the animal could become loose on the street. If someone picks up the animal and the animal is licensed and there's proof that the animal has been vaccinated, the animal can be traced back to you as the owner. There are records kept. So it's important for a lot of reasons that the animal be licensed. MS. GRASSO: And since it varies across the states, where does a person call to get information if they intend to buy a pet or adopt one at the ASPCA? Where would they call to make sure that they're going to comply with all the rules and regulations? MS. ALTMAN: They can call their local humane society, who can give them all the information that they need. They can also call the ASPCA if they don't have luck in their particular area, and we can try and find out, as well. MS. GRASSO: You know, I was surprised when I was reading the materials for this, because they have lemon laws for dogs. Now, lemon laws for cars I can understand, but -- first of all, let's describe what a lemon law for a pet is. MS. ALTMAN: A lemon law is basically there for the consumer. The lemon law permits the consumer who has purchased an animal at a pet store to -- and the animal, let's say, becomes ill, to go back to the pet store and ask for their money back, to go back to the pet store and ask for another animal or, in some instances, I know for example in New York state, an owner of a dog purchased at a pet store could have the animal treated and then ask for reimbursable medical expenses. MS. GRASSO: Now, it's a little different than an automobile, because you don't get attached to an automobile, but I know people will take a pet home and even if they have that pet overnight, they get attached, and they don't want -- you can return the animal. They don't want to do that, so they may have other provisions where you can get the medical costs up to the costs that you've paid and different things like that. What is the problem -- and I was surprised again, you know, reading about buying animals from pet shops, where you would think that a pet shop would be the, you know, the typical place where you get a very healthy animal and you wouldn't have to worry about these problems, but apparently it's not always the case. MS. ALTMAN: It's not always the case. Depending on where the animals come from at a pet store, sometimes the animals are ill when they arrive at the pet store. Sometimes conditions in pet stores aren't appropriate, but you have to be very careful. They're not always coming from responsible breeders in pet store environments. LAWS ON ANIMAL CONTROL MS. GRASSO: Welcome back to Legal Cafe. I'm June Grasso. In this hour, we're looking at the laws of owning a pet. Believe it or not, there are plenty of laws out there, especially when it comes to dogs. First, there are licensing laws. Most states require you to renew the license every year, and to keep a license tag on the dog's neck at all times. About 20 states also require mandatory spaying or neutering of all dogs who are adopted from shelters. Then there are vicious dog laws, which crack down on dog owners if the dog has a known propensity to bite. You should also check your local ordinance for pooper-scooper laws, pet lemon laws, and even laws against barking. Joining me now on our phone is J.R. Gibson, the animal control officer for the city of Shamley (ph), Georgia. Good morning, J.R. MR. GIBSON: Good morning. MS. GRASSO: What's the main complaint you get about animals? MR. GIBSON: Well, the main complaint is that people let their animals out and they stray onto their property and do their business or animals just straying up and down the road, attacking other animals or being a nuisance to their animal. MS. GRASSO: Now, when you come knocking on the door, is it usually a hostile situation when you come knocking on the door and you want to talk to someone about their pet, or is it a kind of neighborly situation, where you just enquire -- are they worried, in other words, that you're going to give them some kind of violations or arrest? MR. GIBSON: Well, most citizens naturally think that, you know, they're in trouble when they see an animal control officer pull up in their yard, but most of the time, people are ignorant of the laws when it comes to animals, and we're -- you know, we're here to educate and let them know that, you know, if you don't know the laws, we'll let you know. Usually we'll give you a warning up front and explain the situation and they'll deal with it the next time more -- with stiffer, you know, fines or whatever. MS. GRASSO: Jamie, the laws about dogs or even pets are not in any one place where it's easy to find. How do people really know about the laws in their area and what they're responsible for, as far as barking goes? I mean, there are all different laws on books. MS. ALTMAN: Absolutely. MR. GIBSON: Okay. What people need to do to find out what the laws are in their area, and they do vary from city to county and to state, they need to get in touch with their local humane society or their local animal control or their local police department even carries copies of the animal control ordinances. MS. GRASSO: Okay. Jamie, do you have anything to add to that? MS. ALTMAN: No, that's absolutely correct, and particularly contacting the local humane society or the police department, since both of those entities will usually go out on calls and investigate animal cruelty, as well. PUPPY MILLS MS. GRASSO: All right. Let's go to our phones, where Ilsa's on the phone. Good morning. Q Good morning. How are you? MS. GRASSO: Good morning. You're on Legal Cafe. Q Yes, I was concerned -- I know your speaker comes from a terrific organization, but I'm concerned about -- that you downplayed buying dogs from pet stores. We all know these dogs come from puppy mills and are raised under terrible conditions, and I belong to the -- (audio blocked) -- and people really need to be very concerned when they're buying dogs from stores. They're really better off going not only to just a breeder, but a breeder that belongs to a national breed club who subscribes to a code of ethics about breeding so that they don't have the problem with the dog being sick. MS. GRASSO: Let me ask you a question. Do you think that -- I mean, do all pet stores -- (clears throat) -- excuse me -- just get their pets from puppy mills? I mean, that can't be true that all the pet stores are doing that. Q Well, all the big chains do. MS. GRASSO: Do you agree with that, Jamie? MS. ALTMAN: I agree that there are a lot of animals in pet stores coming from puppy mills. To say that all pet stores have puppy mill puppies I don't think is accurate, but certainly Ilsa is correct, and you need to be concerned when you purchase an animal from a pet store, and you need to have that animal examined and be very careful, and obviously the optimal situation is to go to a responsible breeder and to adopt an animal through a breeder or through a humane society. MS. GRASSO: Now, there are only about 12 states that have what we call the lemon laws for dogs, so if you're buying your dog, let's say, from a store or even from a breeder, can you get them or should you get them to write out a little contract for you or a warranty, saying, you know, these are the conditions that I'm buying this under, if anything goes wrong, if the dog turns out to be sick, you agree that you're going to, you know, refund me the money or you're going to pay the cost of the veterinary bills? Can you do something with that with the pet store. MS. ALTMAN: You can try to do that. If someone attempts to do that and that isn't successful, the other thing someone is able to do oftentimes is go to the state attorney general for the particular state that they live in, because there's usually a consumer fraud protection law, and often the state attorney general is concerned about that type of situation and may represent the purchaser on behalf of the situation and go after the pet store under the consumer law. MS. GRASSO: J.R., let me ask you, have you ever come across these puppy mills where you are? MR. GIBSON: Oh, no, not in this area. Shamley's (ph) sort of a small town. We do not have many breeders or anything in this general area, but, you know, sooner or later it probably will appear or we will have a problem with it. MS. GRASSO: Okay. And we should, you know, I just want to have somebody explain in case there's somebody out there who doesn't understand what these so-called puppy mills are. Could you explain it, Jamie? MS. ALTMAN: Sure. There are puppy mills throughout this country. They are basically areas where people have housing for animals, kennel conditions, which are very overcrowded, they're not always kept clean. The animals are often in very difficult, small cages, without a lot of space to roam around. They're very overcrowded. The animals become ill, disease spreads, the premises aren't kept clean, and everything flows from there. Then animals are sent out ill and with all sorts of medical problems. MS. GRASSO: All right. There's been a lot of publicity about this recently. OWNER'S LIABILITY WHEN A DOG BITES SOMEONE We're going to go to the phones right now and take your phone calls to hear your questions and concerns about pets and pet law. Our first caller on the line is Beverly from Tennessee. Welcome to Legal Cafe, Beverly. Q Hi. How are you doing? MS. GRASSO: Okay, how are you? Do you have a question about a pet? Q Yeah. I installed a six-foot fence, and I have a Rottweiler. I put chains on it with a lock. The other day, one of my neighbors climbed over my fence. It just so happened the dog was in the house, and I was wondering if -- if my dog had been in the yard and bit this person for climbing over my fence, would I have been liable? MS. GRASSO: And why did the person, if I may ask, climb over your fence? Q Okay. He cuts my grass. See, about 7:00 every night, I put the chain on my gate and my driveway gate and I put the padlock on it so when I let the dog out to run, if she hits the gate, she won't open it up, and -- because everybody's afraid of her. So the other day, he just -- his wife said he put her over the fence. He said he slid her under the fence, and I see where a part of my fence is bent back, and I see where someone had dug and come up under it. You could see, like, the drag marks on the yard. MS. GRASSO: But he has permission to be there to cut the grass? Q No. MS. GRASSO: No, he doesn't have permission to be there to cut the -- I mean, that's I think -- let me go to Jamie here. If he doesn't have permission to be there and he's trespassing and your dog bites someone on your property who's trespassing, are you still responsible for the dog bite injuries? MS. ALTMAN: You may be. It really depends on what the state law says about vicious animals. I would want to ask Beverly if the dog has ever bitten anyone in the past -- Q No. MS. ALTMAN: -- Beverly, or if the dog has ever been declared vicious? Q No. MS. ALTMAN: Does the dog bite anyone? Q No, she's never bit anybody. Even when I'm with her on the street, I have on a leash, I have a muzzle on her, and I keep her rabies shot tag in my pocket, because the type of pinch collar that she wears, it don't say on, so I keep it in my pocket so if I do get stopped by police, then I can show it to them. The man does cut my grass, but he usually cuts on Saturdays when I'm at home and eating and I have both my driveway gates open and the dog is secure in the house. When I lock my gates, then I think that I'm protecting myself and my dog so she will not get out and attack anybody. I don't know if she will attack -- she's never attacked; she's five now, and she's never done anything like that, but, you know, I don't know. I just wanted to know if he's jumping my fence and my dog bites him, would -- you know, what if I had let her out of the house, thinking it was a burglar or something, opened the door and say, you know, let her run the yard, and he's in the yard and she bites him or something. MS. ALTMAN: You have to be very careful, Beverly, because this person does have permission to be on your property. If there are only specific times the person is allowed to be there, then that needs to be made clear, but certainly you may be liable if your animal bites someone, depending on what your state law specifically requires, so you need to be very careful. MS. GRASSO: Beverly, I don't see -- I'm looking through my notes. I don't see that Tennessee specifically has a dangerous dog law, but it might have some form of dangerous dog law, so you've got to check to make sure what your state requires, and, as Jamie said, since he does have permission to be there sometimes, you're kind of in an awkward situation, so you've got to straighten that out with him and make sure that when that -- when the fence is up and when the gate's -- the gate's there, that he does not go over it. You really ought to talk to your neighbor and emphasize to him and get it on the record that he shouldn't be there at those times, okay? Thanks so much for calling. NEIGHBORS AND BARKING DOGS Our next caller is Maureen from New York. Good morning, Maureen. Q Yes. MS. GRASSO: Hi. Do you have a question? Q Yes. I was asking about -- I have two Chesapeake Bay retrievers, and I only let them out when I'm at home. They don't stay in the yard when I'm not at home, they stay in my house. The people next door recently rented their upstairs apartment to a family with children, and they run along the side of the house screaming, and their property adjoins mine -- I have a four-foot fence -- and my dogs bark, and, you know, they quiet when I tell them to be quiet and everything, but it's constantly, you know, every time they run by, I have to get up, "Quiet, guys," you know, back and forth and back and forth. Now, I haven't complained yet, but somebody had said something about, you know, the dogs barking at, you know, late hours. We've had a robbery here lately, and my truck was stolen, and I don't -- you know, late at night, I'm home alone, so when they're outside I feel a little secure, because we do get people roaming around once in a while -- MS. GRASSO: But you're worried about the barking? Q I'm worried about -- MS. GRASSO: But no one's complained yet? Q No, nobody's complained yet, but I just want to know -- the kids running back and forth, teasing them -- I mean, they're not vicious, the dogs, they just want to play, and they see the kids running and they scream, the children scream, and whenever they scream, my dogs freak out. They're like -- what happened? What's going on? And I just want to know is it the kids or the dogs or where do I stand with this in case they do complain? MS. GRASSO: I think, Jamie, first of all, you should explain about dogs and dog bites and, you know, the fact that if it's your dog and the dog bites -- I mean, does it matter if the child is kind of making motions or whatever, you're responsible for your dog? MS. ALTMAN: Yeah, and a lot of it does depend on whether the dog is fenced in and the appropriateness of the fence and whether the owner knows whether the animal has a tendency to bite. If the property is fenced in and, you know, somebody comes onto the property, that's one situation. If the animal is determined to be aggressive and has been ordered confined, for example, as in New York state, where an animal can be confined -- that is, declared dangerous -- then the owner has a heightened responsibility. So I think a lot of it depends on when the animal's outside, what kind of animal it is, whether there's a proper fence, and what sort of notice the owner has about that particular animal. MS. GRASSO: Now, as far as -- she's in a residential area. As far as country as opposed to city living, is there a difference there between what the rules and regulations are for your dog? MS. ALTMAN: There are often differences in a city environment. There's often a separate dangerous dog law, as there is in New York, for New York City versus New York state. They are similar, but again, if the owner does have a reason to know that the animal is a biting animal or the animal has been confined because it's been determined dangerous, then the owner has a heightened responsibility. MS. GRASSO: And, you know, we should mention, as far as the barking, Maureen, that your dog, I mean, your neighbors could complain that your dog is becoming a nuisance and stopping their enjoyment of their property, so that could be a problem if your dog does a lot of barking at night. You know, the best thing to do in these situations where it's neighbors, is to talk to the neighbor first of all, and to get it straight with them, you know, about -- that the children are, you know, egging your dogs on, or whatever, and then also -- if it still continues to be a problem, you could always try mediation, good old mediation court. There are mediation courts in every community, and mediate it that way, but you really have to be careful about it, especially when there are children around, and the barking could get to be a problem. But since you've had no complaints so far, so far so good. Thanks so much for calling. MS. GRASSO: Welcome back. The Legal Cafe website's open 24 hours a day, seven days a week to answer your questions and give you a sneak preview of our upcoming show topics. GETTING BITTEN BY A CAT Patricia from Texas has a question about cats. She was attacked by a neighbor's cat, and she asks, "Are cats held to the same legal standard as dogs when they bite someone?" And that's a good question, because cats can be very temperamental. We don't hear very much about cat bites the way we hear about dog bites, but what's the answer, Jamie? MS. ALTMAN: The answer is even if a specific law does not deal with dangerous cats, as it does with dangerous dogs, there is always a civil cause of action if somebody is injured by somebody else with their pet or on their property, so the answer is yes, if there's a situation like that involving something other than a dog, the person could go to civil court and commence an action against the person who owns the animal. MS. GRASSO: J.R., let me go to you about actually the whole issue of dog bites and cat bites. How do you solve that problem where you are? MR. GIBSON: Well, usually if we have a dog or a cat that bites, we go out to the owner and find out first if the animal was running at large and how the bite really took, you know, took place, and if we find that the animal's running astray when the bite took place, we go ahead and cite the person for animal running at large, and then we turn around -- we have a law that where the animal, if he's running at large, the owner's, you know, required responsible for any bites the animal may cause or any damage the animal may cause. MS. GRASSO: Now, J.R., we had a caller before who was worried about -- in fact, two callers, actually, who were worried about their dog biting someone while the dog was in their own yard. What's your view of that situation, if your dog bites someone while it's fenced in? MR. GIBSON: Well, you know, really most of the property should be posted, letting someone know, first of all, that there is an animal in the yard, because we have a lot of problems with people like from Georgia Power and the gas-light company, stuff like that, going in yards and their property's not posted, and these people have to go on to the property, so, you know, they're taking the chance of, you know, not knowing if there's animals back there or why -- and usually that's how some bites take place. But there is, in our jurisdiction, that if an animal bites in Georgia, the owner is liable, no matter how the bite took place. MS. GRASSO: All right. And I think that that's true of many states, and that's the problem that our callers are having, I think, but -- so that seems to be the case in a lot of states. Thanks so much, J.R. TIPS FOR BUYING A PET MS. GRASSO: Welcome back to Legal Cafe. I'm June Grasso. We've got a few minutes left in this hour, so let's highlight some of the key legal points on our topic. We'll call this Jamie Altman's House Blend for a Happy Pet. The first step should be a trip to your local vet for a complete examination and set of vaccinations. In some cities and states, you can't get a license without them. You should also spay or neuter your pet to help keep the population under control. And, finally, don't forget to prepare your home for your pet. Jamie, we just have a few minutes left, and I want to ask you, you know, outside, maybe of the legal realm, but what the best advice you have for people who are just about to buy a pet. MS. ALTMAN: I think that the best advice I can give people is that they need to be responsible pet owners, they need to understand what it means to own a pet, the pet is a live animal, the pet needs to be taken to the vet, needs to be spayed or neutered, it needs to be loved, you need to prepare your home -- MS. GRASSO: Now, what -- how exactly do you prepare your home for a pet? MS. ALTMAN: You prepare your home by making sure you have the proper bowls, you have the proper setup in your home for the animal, that you have the proper leash, that you have everything you're going to need -- food at all times. MS. GRASSO: Now, a lot of people, particular people who live out in the country, decide they want an exotic animal. They want the monkey or something -- you know, something like that. What do you have to do if you're thinking of having an exotic animal? First of all, is it a good idea to get an exotic animal? MS. ALTMAN: Depending on the animal, it is generally not a good idea, because most of the time -- for example, with specific types of monkeys and so on -- oftentimes they're not even legal to own by people as companion animals, but exotic animals are a lot of work. They require a lot of special attention, so if you want to purchase or adopt an exotic animal that is permissible, you need to really understand what it means to care for that animal. MS. GRASSO: And do a lot of research into it, I would think. MS. ALTMAN: Absolutely. MS. GRASSO: And where do you find out your local laws on -- let's say you want to own an exotic animal. MS. ALTMAN: Anyone that's interested in doing that can call the ASPCA in New York, and there are people at the ASPCA who can educate them and inform them as to what they need to do. MS. GRASSO: All right. That about does it for our look at pet laws. We'll revisit this topic again in the near future, so keep on watching. MS. GRASSO: I want to thank Jamie Altman for coming here this morning and for helping us with our look at pet laws, and really thanks to the ASPCA. It's a wonderful organization and really a wealth of information available there for people who are interested in buying pets or owning pets of any kind. So thanks so much for coming in. MS. ALTMAN: You're very welcome, June.