Court TV Host: We're going to be talking about the execution of Timothy McVeigh. It happened this morning at 8:14 Eastern time We're going to be joined by a survivor of the bombing, Dr. Paul Heath, who is also a founder of the Murrah Building Survivors Association. He was at the Oklahoma City memorial today, but, by the way, he did not witness the execution on closed circuit TV.

Court TV Host: Dr. Heath is here with us...Welcome.

Paul Heath: Thanks for being interested in the story of the bombing of the Oklahoma City Alfred P. Murrah building, and one small part of that story is Timothy McVeigh's demand, made on December the 7th, which is Pearl Harbor Day, to require the government to set an execution day.

Court TV Host: Let's take the first question from online...

ctv_warhorse46: What are your feelings on this day? Are they what you expected?

Paul Heath: My own personal feelings are steeled by the total traumatic event and therefore the only obvious emotional reaction is that I'm concerned that others may be adversely affected by the execution and miss the point of the loss of life and the injuries caused by this terrorist act. I feel no different today than I did yesterday. At 7 o'clock AM today while standing on the television stage with Charles Gibson on Good Morning America I pointed to my watch with my fingers indicating that the lethal dose of sodium thiopental had just been administered to Mr. McVeigh Mr. Gibson nodded his head, and I bowed my head and prayed this prayer: God help all of us.

Court TV Host: I seem to remember the last time we spoke, you said that you thought you would actually watch the execution, did you decide not to?

jets_00_falcons_04: Did you witness the execution?

c_mcb_2002: Did you see the execution?

skye765: Dr. Heath, were you present for the execution?

Paul Heath: I was a qualified viewer and had hired the attorney to make sure that the closed-circuit television feed was available in Oklahoma City. However, on a personal level and as a psychologist, I had no desire nor a need to view today's execution because I had forgiven Timothy McVeigh 3 months after the bombing of his attempt on my life. I learned from my mother as a child who, incidentally, bucked rivets on C47 airplanes used in World War II, that helped to defeat Nazi totalitarianism that plagued Europe in the late 30s until victory in Europe in 1945. She always said, when you forgive those that have harmed you, it's a gift you give yourself. Oh, how true. My forgiving McVeigh enabled me to use my energy and intellect for positive activity on my own behalf and on the behalf of others, including the founding the Oklahoma City Murrah Building Survivors' Association. I served two years as president, two years as vice president. I'm currently serving on the board of directors, as treasurer, and the corporate office is maintained in my small private office. I also serve as the newsletter editor.

bsk53usa: What is your overall opinion of the death penalty?

Paul Heath: As a spokesperson for the Oklahoma City Murrah Building Survivors' Association, I have advocated the position that we would support the jury's decision as to innocence or guilt, and whatever penalty the jury imposed. If there was ever a criminal act in the history of jurisprudence that deserved consideration of the death penalty, surely this one qualifies. On a personal level, I have not been taught nor did I believe that death penalty statutes prevent mass murderers to be deterred. On the other hand, these capital penalty statutes do encourage suicide-by-cop. Mr. McVeigh's Pearl Harbor Day demand is an example of suicide-by-cop. The federal government had not put anyone to death in 33 years, and Mr. McVeigh would not have been put to death had he not demanded it. His demand resulted in a leap-frogging over 19 others on death row in the Terre Haute, Indiana prison facility.

fdlkliq: My personal feelings are basically that I've heard enough of Mcveigh. It's about time we focused solely on the victims and their families. Do you think that today has brought some sort of closure to the families?

Paul Heath: The execution of Timothy McVeigh will not result in closure in the minds of survivors and family members, if one considers closure to be that family members and survivors will not think about, talk about and respond to questions about the person who was so delusional and irrational that he chose an act of violence for political purposes. I do believe that today's execution gives all of us, "every man woman and child on earth," the opportunity to dedicate ourselves and work towards living with the event without it affecting our everyday reality most of the time.

centechsan: What was the reaction of the victims' families who watched on the closed circuit TV when he died?

Paul Heath: Every one of them I talked with stated they were glad they had the opportunity to be qualified viewers of the execution. Every one of the persons I talked with interpreted the facial expression and other body language exhibited by this condemned, delusional, suicidal murderer to be a defiant, still-enraged person as he died.

st8_o_mind: As a psychologist, do you find your patients get relief, i.e. "closure", or do you think it mostly satisfies a desire for revenge...or something else altogether?

Paul Heath: No two people will take away from the viewing of the execution the same memories benefits, or emotional baggage. One lady fainted, and was embarrassed that she fainted, but delightfully glad that she attended the execution. Her comment was she will remember the event forever. Another person said that he was not emotionally moved one way or the other but was glad that this murderer will not hurt anybody else in his family or anybody else's family. Others also reported being surprised when Attorney General John Ashcroft greeted and addressed the group prior to the viewing. They felt that his presence was a symbolic statement of their government's support or emotional support for a continuing healing process. Attorney General Ashcroft did not stay for the execution and excused himself to do other duties related to his office.

Tzara17: What has helped you get through these past few years?

Paul Heath: Number one, I believe that I had an emotionally balanced life prior to the bombing. I had and still have a wonderful, supportive spouse and family who have patiently and lovingly provided emotional support for my style of the healing process. The anxiety that resulted from my post-traumatic stress disorder can be categorized by the symptom of hyper-vigilance. My hyper-vigilance has been directed towards attempting to help myself and others in positive ways. And it has been directed towards allowing others to do positive things for me and to me. My wife has even been Supportive of phone bills that are approximately four to five hundred dollars a month, some months, in my determination to be of assistance to media sources so that they can tell this story from all of its perspectives. She has also been at times concerned about the amount of time that I have invested in learning by going to every one of the trials and reading all of the books, newspaper articles and magazines that have published about the Oklahoma City bombing. My employers were not quite as supportive, but can be described as extremely cooperative, allowing me to rearrange my work schedule.

hexenwahn: Did you have a need to NOT see the execution, as well?

Paul Heath: Philosophically and professionally, and after serving 2 years on the state mental health board where I had to review every case in the state of Oklahoma of people who committed suicide-by-cop taught me the importance of the fact that death penalty statutes provide a lot of cowardly people the opportunity to victimize a public servant who has to live with the experience of fatally wounding these delusional people who choose that method of death. And I hope that explains to you why I had no need to observe McVeigh's demand to be executed. In fact, he too committed suicide-by-cop by his Pearl Harbor Day demand to have his execution date set. Today's media coverage of this execution is disproportionate to what I believe to be this country's problems, and I pray that people would be concerned enough about the issues of full-employment, education of our population, caring for the children of the least among us, as well as caring for all the rest of us. And that would have been, and will be, my hope for the future. I want us to remember those who died, those who survived, and those changed forever. And I want us to remember the impact of violence And I want for all mankind to be the recipients of strength peace, hope and serenity. And that these qualities of the soul not only be present at the Oklahoma City National Memorial but that they may be present in the everyday hearts, minds and souls of all of us. The Constitution of the United States has never meant more to me than it did the first hour after the bombing when members of my community responded with overwhelming support, love, rescue efforts, and yes, provided all of us with a system of government that allowed the perpetrators of these acts of evil to be properly adjudicated -- and that adjudication resulted in a fair and competent trial that stood the test of the most rugged appeals. How could there be any doubt when the perpetrator who entered into a conspiracy to plan, build and deliver an instrument of mass destruction openly admitted and proudly took credit for his acts of mass murder. This is the end of the middle chapter, of a long book titled: The Bumpy, Road to Justice. The title of this chapter is The Long, Bumpy Road of Justice for Timothy McVeigh. Starting in just a few days in Oklahoma county is another chapter, The Long Bumpy Road to (State) Justice for Terry Nichols. The book will never be finished until Dr. Heath's mortician cranks the casket lid closed. I know for sure that not only the bombing itself but the aftermath of the bombing, including not only the trials but the building of the Oklahoma City national memorial, will live in my memory as long as I live. I welcome correspondence, directed to me at the Oklahoma City Murrah Building Survivors Association, PO Box 304 Oklahoma City, 73101-0304.

Blinkxxxangel: If you could have talked to him before he died, what would you say?

Paul Heath: One question that I would want to know: Is he the person that ran a classified ad in the Baltimore Sun in 1994 directed at the U.S. Marshal's Service, where the author of the ad claimed that a bombing might take place around April 1, somewhere in the 10th circuit court of appeals. We don't know who ran that ad, but McVeigh said there were two things he was disappointed with: first, that the bomb did not bring the whole building down -- I guess he thought that if it brought the whole building down, it would have killed everyone; second, that the U.S. Marshal's Service office was located across the street in the federal building. During the trial, it was alleged that he went into the Buffalo, New York Marshal's service to apply for a job, and his application for work was rejected.

Paul Heath: The other question I might want to ask him had to do with what my psychologist's eye observed, and I wondered if he had a hormonal deficiency, that he was under-endowed with male hormones. He had very little interest in women. His body-build, his lack of secondary sex characteristics, like facial or body hair, left me with the idea that he might be in need of referral to a hormone specialist. I have personally seen a number of veterans who were supremely suspicious of other peoples' attitudes, who had the same attitudes about guns and gun control, who were treated successfully for hormonal deficiency, resulting in a complete restoration of their mental health.

Storydoll: How can we learn from all this...and teach our children to not hate?

poppys1girl: What good can come from this day?

Paul Heath: Teachers, and especially heroes of young people, which obviously includes their parents, have to be vigilant with all of our children to educate them in ways that include emotional nurturing that fit their individual situation. I remain concerned about the ten or fifteen percent of the population that teach their children ideas including that it's necessary to store up a year's supply of food and water because something apocalyptic is going to happen. They further teach their children they must have their guns handy when their neighbors come to steal food and water. I don't buy the idea that you can excuse these concepts as those of survivalists who are "normal" in their thinking. I would suggest we make an effort to teach not only young and older children and young adults about what I would call my social studies training in school. I think we should teach that individual responsibility that grows out of one's knowledge, those treasured ideas that are in the Constitution, Declaration of Independence, the Bill of Rights, and other significant historical subjects that inspire an appreciation for our unique representative form of government. And by all means we need to teach not only children but each other to find ways that are appropriate to give us a vent for whatever angers or engenders rage, so that these emotions do not develop into concrete plans that would result in any kind of violence -- whether it be verbal attacks or physical violence or violence using instruments like guns or other instruments of harm.