Guilt by Association
 Kellie Mann, sentenced to ten years under mandatory minimum sentencing, discusses the issue
March 14, 2002
 

Court TV Host: For those of you just joining us, we're going to be talking about the topic of mandatory minimum sentences, with someone who knows their impact first-hand. Kellie Mann spent 10 years in prison for one single drug offense.

Court TV Host: You can read about the issue and about Kellie's story in our In-Depth look at the issue of mandatory minimums.

Court TV Host: Kellie is here with us now. Welcome, Kellie!

Kellie Mann: Hello all.

Question from online: mary: Hi Kellie , How are you? I want to know why you bought the drugs in the first place. What did you get out of the drug buy?

Kellie Mann: I did it as a favor to my boyfriend. I did not do it for financial gain. I was unaware of the severe consequences, however I did know that it was illegal. I didn't really think ahead of time about the effect it would have on my life or those surrounding myself.

Question from online: geodiva: Ms. Mann, in what state was your sentence of 10 years mandated? For possession? Dealing?

Kellie Mann: I was charged with a federal crime, not a state crime. So I was charged with two mandatory minimum felonies, two of which were focused on in the movie last evening: one being conspiracy, and the other being possession with intent to distribute.

Question from online: Tracer: I was unaware myself until I watched Guilt by Association last night.

Kellie Mann: The movie "Guilt by Association" was incredibly accurate. I found many of the points made in the movie are points I've been making for the past ten years regarding mandatory minimums. I can only assume we have Families Against Mandatory Minimums to thank for that focus.

Question from online: Steve: how old were you at the time?

Kellie Mann: 21.

Question from online: Steve: What do you think would have been a fair sentence?

Kellie Mann: Now, it's easy for me to say that two years would've been just, looking at and comparing other sentences of the women that I was with. I still maintain that women such as myself would be better served through community-based sentences such as home confinement, community service, or drug treatment programs. Prior to my arrest, and subsequent to my boyfriend's arrest, I can honestly say that I learned my lesson and would never have been involved again. It certainly didn't take seven years for me to learn that.

Question from online: snooky: Did your boyfriend go to jail too?

Kellie Mann: Yes, he served two years. As you saw in Guilt by Association, those individuals that have greater involvement are oftentimes able to provide the government with substantial assistance, resulting in the arrest of others -- which significantly reduces their prison terms.

Question from online: kellie: Kellie, what happened to your boyfriend after you went to prison? Did he try to contact you at all?

Kellie Mann: No, we have not been in contact at all. However, he does live in my town. I hold no animosity towards him. He made the choices and decision that were best for his own life. It's best to focus on the way the laws are written that causes such a disparity in overall sentencing.

Question from online: Tes: Is there a certain amount that LSD sentences are based on?

Kellie Mann: Prior to 1994, LSD and the medium/carrier were typically weighed on a scale. The sentencing commission in 1994 changed the application to be a per dose unit weight. Although I was sentenced after the law was changed, the mandatory minimum overrode the sentencing guidelines with respect to LSD weight. And therefore, I did not receive the benefit of the weight guideline change. My guideline sentence would've been the equivalent of 45 months. I was sentenced to 120 months.

Question from online: Susie-CTV: What was the worst part about your prison term?

Kellie Mann: Separation from my family. Without hesitation. There are many factors involved, especially from the point of view of someone who was so young. I started dealing with a very adult legal world at age 21, still being a child mentally. It was a very strange feeling taking final exams at the University of Georgia and being inside a prison two weeks later. I missed significant growth time regarding relationships, friends, possible children, and -- especially devastating -- career opportunity. But I've chosen to make the best of my situation, and have made positive choices throughout the last eight years, and maintain that I like who I am today and have no regrets about the experiences I've had.

Question from online: Chris: Kellie, what has been your biggest challenge adjusting to life outside of prison?

Kellie Mann: There are so many. The obvious being technological advances. I can honestly say this is the first chat room I've ever been in. From common conveniences from ATM cards at the grocery store (which did not exist) to the Internet, which was available only as LAN systems in businesses. As far as relationship go, everyone has been very open and I've been very forthcoming about my experience I'm fortunate in that I've surrounded myself with positive people. I've really not experienced any negative responses from individuals from my past, or new people that I've met.

Court TV Host: Here's a question, a follow-up about your boyfriend...

Question from online: Tony: Did he testify against you?

Kellie Mann: We did not go to trial. However, his accusations were enough.

Question from online: Doris-CTV: Is it true there is no parole for a federal crime?

Kellie Mann: Yes. Parole was abolished in the 80's.

Court TV Host: Another follow-up about your boyfriend...

Question from online: debbie: Did he not stand behind you at all?

Kellie Mann: No. He was threatened in the same manner that I was -- that he would receive 10 years in prison if he did not cooperate. The government tends to use fear as a method to get you to cooperate.

Question from online: smd: Kellie, How did you get busted?

Kellie Mann: Actually, my boyfriend got busted at the post office while he was claiming a package of LSD. We're not really sure who was the informant, but a confidential informant notified the police of the arriving package.

Question from online: Kim: How has the conviction affected your ability to find a good paying job?

Question from online: debbie: what are you doing with you life now?

Kellie Mann: I currently work for a non-profit organization run by wonderfully open-minded, caring, loving, family-oriented individuals, and we train service dogs for children and adults with physical disabilities. I spend most of my spare time with family and friends and just enjoy each waking day and freedom.

Court TV Host: Here are two follow-up questions, to your comment that you said you were threatened by prosecutors...

Question from online: Steve: How were you threatened?

Question from online: debbie: In what way were you threatened?

Kellie Mann: We would be sent to jail for 10 years. That was the threat. Unfortunately, it was also the reality.

Question from online: Neko: Approximately how many others in prison were there for the same offense?

Kellie Mann: I don't know the exact numbers. I can speak for my individual unit -- I was fortunate enough to live in a very small unit, as I was in the volunteer fire crew. We lived in separate housing, and out of the sixteen of us, I would estimate that ten were serving mandatory minimums. All women with children, that if you met them on the street you would never know that they were in prison. Many were affected by husbands or boyfriends making choices that ultimately affected their lives. Much like the character in "Guilt by Association"

Question from online: Eric: Do prosecutors tend to pursue cases like yours less aggressively because they object to the mandatory sentences?

Kellie Mann: No, I don't think you'll find a prosecutor that objects to mandatory minimums. If they object, they don't work in the field.

Court TV Host: Another follow-up question about your boyfriend…

Question from online: debbie: But his decision to ask you to buy the drugs destroyed your life, how can you not have feeling against him?

Kellie Mann: He didn't destroy my life. I too could have somehow cooperated with the government, although my knowledge was minimal. If I wanted to go out and set people up for buys, I could've gotten two years. But my knowledge was limited. Fortunately, for those people that may have been affected, I chose to take responsibility for my own choices. My life hasn't been destroyed, just altered. I've tried to make the best of what happened -- such as talking to folks like you.

Question from online: sarah: Mandatory sentencing is meant to eliminate disparity.

Kellie Mann: That was the intent. Unfortunately, what has been found is that prosecution is still given the opportunity to plea bargain with respect to cooperation. Inevitably, the more knowledgeable kingpins tend to have a better understanding of the drug trade, know more people, and ultimately "the mule" takes the brunt of the sentence.

Question from online: pennie: Kellie, are you aware of any reforms of mandatory minimums?

Kellie Mann: I'm aware FAMM's attempt at reform. However, legislators don't want to look soft on crime, and ultimately it becomes a political issue. Fortunately for individuals like myself, and a handful of others that were released on January 20, 2001, during Clinton's last day in office, there were no repercussions for him as an outgoing president. He made the right choices by letting out low-level first-time non-violent offenders that qualified. I received a personal, hand-written letter subsequent to my release from President Clinton asking me to prove his decision right by leading a good life.

Question from online: mary: What kind of family support did you get?

Kellie Mann: My family's support couldn't have been any better. I talked to my parents all the time. They visited, initially, every three to four weeks (I was in West Virginia) Then, once I got more settled in, they visited every other month. However, the real support came in that they never chastised me for the decision I made, never tried to make me feel guilty, only encouraged me to go forward from there.

Question from online: jude: Do you feel like you were embittered by the experience of being in prison for so long and if not...how did you avoid it?

Question from online: debbie: Are you angry at the justice system?

Kellie Mann: I am not bitter about my experience. It's unfortunate that I lived my life in prison, but it's my life and my experience, and as I stated earlier I try to make the best of it. I was very bitter for about the first 3 years, because I honestly, truly believed that someone would realize the injustice in a Supreme Court appeal. However, the laws are written in such a way that the scope is very narrow to be able to win appeals against mandatory minimums -- specifically against the conspiracy laws. Someone merely has to say that you were involved and testify to that fact. No physical evidence has to be present. After I realized that I would be serving my full sentence, I was able to gain a calmness and come to the realization that I've spoken about -- that I was in prison, and that I must make the best of each day.

Question from online: Steve: Do you think any crimes should carry a minimum sentence?

Kellie Mann: Many crimes are state crimes. When you think of the heinous crimes, you consider amongst those -- murder, rape, child molestation -- and all of these hold lesser sentences than what I served. I can't respond to mandatory minimums because they've affected my life so greatly. I feel like judges should have discretion on a case-by-case basis. Of course I want to say that no crime should hold a mandatory minimum, but looking at violent crime it's difficult to negate their validity.

Question from online: She: Hi Kellie. It seems that this is a problem that hasn't had much publicity in the past, but is now coming to light. Are you able to use your experience to change these types of laws?

Question from online: Sadie1962: Hi Kellie...has anything changed to help the innocent victims of mandatory sentencing since you were convicted?

Question from online: Remington: Do you do anything to help change drug laws now?

Kellie Mann: During my incarceration, my case has been used on television several times and in many print media forms -- such as Time magazine, Newsweek, the New York Times, and others. My case seems to be the perfect "poster child" and I have no issue with that -- I can only hope to educate others. I continue to be vocal in my daily life. However, in the past year, I have only done a few media interviews. With Court TV bringing light to the subject, in such a large forum, I feel ready to hit the trail again. This is an issue that will never die in my mind until the laws are changed. And I'm always ready and willing to speak out against them. I thought the movie did an excellent job of portraying the law. They described it exactly as I have for so many years. I felt like I was speaking. And I feel possibly this movie could be used as an educational tool in high schools. It was very accurate.

Court TV Host: Any area of the movie you feel was not accurate?

Kellie Mann: Of course I was thrilled to see FAMM highlighted, however you would never see a Bureau of Prisons staff member as a FAMM advocate, passing out newsletters and encouraging FAMM association.

Court TV Host: Any closing thoughts?

Kellie Mann: As I said, the movie was very accurate. There was a scene in the movie where the main character was speaking with a lawyer who was explaining the mandatory minimums and it was to the T correct in exactly the way my lawyer explained it to me. And I think that anyone who's now seen it and is affected in any way should take those words and repeat them. Generally we don't get involved with issues unless they affect our daily life. But clearly once you see injustice, it's not something you can turn your back on. I assume many of you in this chat room are young and can only hope that you'll heed the warning: drug involvement is not a game, and you can lose your freedom.

Court TV Host: Thank you very much for being our guest today.

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