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The Carlie Brucia Case
  Court TV's Jami Floyd looks at the trial of Joseph Smith
Nov. 7, 2005
 

Court TV Host: Jami's here to take your questions about the Carlie Brucia case...or anything else you'd like to discuss. Welcome, Jami.

Court TV Host: By the way, if you'd like to take a look at the transcript of last week's chat, just click here.

Jami Floyd: Good to be here. My favorite time of the week.

Question from nyparrot: Jami: Question of the day ...WHY are we wasting tax payers' money and time on this trial when they have so much evidence on him...don't they have his DNA on the victim Carlie Brucia?

Jami Floyd: The state wants the death penalty (rightly so). And no one pleads to death (rightly so). As for the DNA, the defense attorney is challenging not only the testing (at the FBI Lab during a time in which the lab was being investigated for corrupt testing) but also the chain of custody of the sample. In other words, the DNA didn't come from the victim herself (as in a rape kit test) but from a swatch of fabric. So he'll say it was planted or at least not properly maintained before testing.

Question from Joy: Hi Jami! What did you think about the defense's opening statement, and do you know why Carlie's mama isn't in the courtroom?

Jami Floyd: The defense attorney is certainly not flamboyant or dramatic in his presentation, but that may work to his advantage in such a terrible case. He was very matter of fact, but very likeable, and most importantly, he was methodical. Whether you buy his theory of the case or not, he was very clear in his presentation of where he thinks the evidence will go. I was most interested in his Plan B approach: to cast the shadow of guilt on other convicted felons who were a part of Carlie's life. As for Carlie's mom, I can't imagine sitting there listening to all of that horrible testimony about the body and the death of that beautiful little girl. Her father apparently had a tough time keeping it together (he was sitting behind Savannah Guthrie). And the mom has had a hard time keeping it together even before he daughter's death. She reportedly has had a drug problem and several run-ins with the law (as has Carlie's stepfather). Carlie's death has sent her on a further spiral downward.

Question from good: What felons were a part of Carlie's life????

Jami Floyd: The last person to see Carlie alive, Ron Choquette, her stepfather, Steve Kansler AND her mother Susan Schorpen had all had contact with the criminal justice system. Also, there is some question as to whether the family knew Joseph and John Smith -- the defendant and his brother. Both have long rap sheets. The prosecutor says no. But there is some evidence that the parents may have known each other from hanging at local watering holes.

Question from Beachie: Do you think they will bring up that Susan knew the defendant?

Jami Floyd: I do. It's a risky strategy, so I could be wrong. You don't want to blame the mother for something horrific like this. But there is a very clear question of why this little girl didn't shout or scream. The man on the video could have said he had a weapon, but others have suggested that she may have known him and therefore let her guard down just long enough to be led away. It wouldn't be the first case of a ne'er-do-well abducting a child. In fact, most crimes against children are perpetrated by people they know, not strangers.

Question from jenna: Why must the victim's family be re-victimized in the court and for what purpose?

Question from mimi: That almost smacks of the defense in the van Dam case!

Jami Floyd: This case is very much like van Dam, I think. The problem is less with the defense attorneys than it is with an American media that wants every story to be like a Hollywood screenplay where the bad guys are pure evil and the victims and their families are saints. That's not the way life really is. It's messy. All parents make mistakes. Many families have dysfunction. When we in the media fail to talk about those parts of the story, we do a disservice to the pubic because (1) we don't help parents and children think about how to AVOID the next bad situation and (2) we scare people into thinking that this can just happen to anyone. Most often, when children are placed in harm's way, their parents (not willfully, but negligently) place them there. That doesn't mean their grief is any less when they lose their child. It doesn't mean the monster who would do such a thing is any less guilty, but it does mean that we all have to think about the choices we make as parents so that we too do not become victims.

Question from ctv_warhorse2: Even if the mom did know Smith, what relevance does that have to the murder?

Question from Kelly: Does that change anything? It seems pretty insignificant whether or not they previously knew each other.

Jami Floyd: Well, actually I agree. I think it has great relevance to the story -- for us as the consumers of news -- as I suggested above. But I'm not entirely sure what relevance it has to the legal case. The prosecutor made a big deal about it in her opening. She said several times that no one in Carlie's family knew the Smiths. That Carlie didn't know the Smiths. and I was thinking "so what?" But from the defense perspective, I do see the point of a larger question of the types of people the parents associated with. Not so much re the Smiths. but re anyone else who might have done this terrible act.

Question from Beachie: I am a realtor in Sarasota and some clients were concerned about moving here after this crime. Locally we heard that it was more than a stranger grabbing a child, but most people had not heard that.

Jami Floyd: Wow. that's something else. That this case would affect real estate, even for a minute. It's a terrible, terrible story, but certainly not an everyday thing. And I've been to Sarasota. It's so very beautiful. Think that added to the horror of it all. Curious what you mean by "more than a stranger grabbing a child..."

Question from JamiFan: What was Ron's tow truck doing at the carwash that day?

Jami Floyd: Yeah, what *was* Ron's tow truck doing at the car wash that day? And why did it speed away when the guys who worked there went to see whether it needed servicing?

Question from JudgeGuilty: What type of juror would the defense want to have?

Jami Floyd: Ideally, one who is opposed to the death penalty! But you can't excuse on that ground, so we can move on. Next you'd look for someone who is skeptical of police/law enforcement. That would help with the rush to judgment defense as well as in holding the prosecutor to its proof. The DA has to prove that the DNA evidence is reliable. So you want a juror that wants to hear that proof and won't just assume DNA is always reliable. Usually they are people of color -- but not Latinos, esp. not in Florida. but of course those are generalizations, and you can't excuse on race anyway. Mostly, you wouldn't want ANY mothers of young girls. NONE.

Question from Beachie: Local word is that he and Susan had argued about drug $ that she owed him in weeks prior to the murder.

Jami Floyd: That's pretty good stuff. But I will definitely forward to Savannah and our team on the ground. Source for that is....?

Question from drcarl: Did he get offered a plea deal? Or did he seek one?

Jami Floyd: No plea deal offered. His only option was to forgo the trial and accept the death penalty.

Question from Time4Truth: Do you believe Carlie's parents should be held responsible in anyway for her death?

Jami Floyd: No, not in any formal way. They've suffered enough. But I do think that in our reporting of the story we need to be accurate about what kind of parents they were, what kind of life they led, what they might have done differently. Again, we like to paint the victims in these kinds of cases, as all-American families. Most often they are not. But no, I think they've suffered enough. Btw, the mom has lost custody of her second child -- Carlie's seven-year-old stepbrother. So her life is falling apart.

Question from Bridget: Hello, I have a question: how did Joe gain so much weight in jail?

Jami Floyd: Well, word at the courthouse is that the weight gain comes from the high-carb jailhouse diet he's been eating. But the more cynical among us -- me included -- chalk it up to a concerted effort to look very different from that man on the videotape.

Question from ctv_warhorse2: Is there a gag order in place in the Smith trial?

Jami Floyd: Not yet.

Question from Kelly: To me, the defense attorney looked scared to death while speaking to the court. It appeared (to me) that he was gasping for air between his sentences.

Jami Floyd: hahahahaha. That made me LOL. But no, I'm told that's just his style. He has no reason to be scared. He's a career public defender and heads up the homicide division. He has had more trial experience than any private attorney in the state, and he has tried every big murder case for the last ten years. So no, I don't think he's terrified. But it is a funny description.

Question from carebear: But won't there be pics etc. of when he -Joe- got arrested?

Jami Floyd: Yes. In his mug shot he appears 60-80 pounds thinner (we talked about this on my show today and put them up side by side), but there is still the subtle effect of his presence as a heavyset man in that courtroom when the man on the now infamous tape is less so. We trial attorneys deal in subtleties a lot. Right down to the color suit you wear to deliver your closing, where you seat the family, facial expressions. The whole bit. But yes, you can bet the DA will point out the weight gain. And bring up the mug shot.

Question from ctv_warhorse2: Are public defenders allowed to refuse cases? What grounds would they need to do so?

Jami Floyd: Great question. You can't really refuse (I was a PD for a time in California), but you can ask the judge to let you off a case if (a) there is a conflict of interest (you represent a co-defendant with a different theory of the case, you've represented the victim, or something else like that) (b) when your client wants to represent himself, or wants another PD or wants private counsel or (c) when your client has told you he did it, but wants to take the witness stand and lie to the jury about what happened. Those are all relatively rare circumstances and I'd say you take about 98% of the cases you're assigned. I never once refused a case, however distasteful. That's the challenge of the work. You have to believe in the Constitution so much that you'd defend anyone's right to a fair trial.

Question from Kelly: Can you clarify what the defense attorney meant by continuously stressing that Carlie did not want to be at the sleep-over and that she was arguing with the other girls all night. Was someone 'forcing' Carlie to spend the night there?

Jami Floyd: I think all of that goes to the state of things at home. I think he's going to talk about her troubled home life. I remember that statement specifically and, although it was unclear, I thought "he must be planning to introduce evidence that her mother made her go over there because of something that was happening at Carlie's home." The media calls it a sleepover. But really, Susan sent Carlie to stay with Susan's friend Connie, who happened to have kids about the same age as Carlie. But it seems these were not Carlie's friends. So I think that's where he was going.

Question from JamiFan: If the slumber party mom was on the phone and Carlie's mom said do not let her walk home, then how come when the father got there Carlie had already left walking home alone?

Jami Floyd: There are two different versions of what happened. One version has Connie at home calling Susan to say that Carlie wants to leave and Carlie leaving while the moms are on the phone. The other version has Connie finding out that Carlie has left only after the fact and telling Susan to try to intercept her on the way home. I would imagine Connie will testify and clear this up.

Question from Time4Truth: Why was her other child removed from the home?

Jami Floyd: According to news articles, "[Susan] Schorpen has lost custody of her other child and her home has been described as a drug den." News reports also indicate that police have been called to the home at least a dozen times since Carlie died. There have been domestic violence calls to the home according to police records, and one arrest of Carlie's step dad (on the witness stand now). So it wasn't a good environment for kids, by most accounts.

Question from Beachie: After the stabbing at Susan's house this summer, her grandmother was quoted in the Herald Tribune as saying she was sick of the mess there and was going to evict her.

Jami Floyd: I've actually been to two websites that say just that. Haven't seen that particular Trib article. but the Trib is considered one of the best papers in the country, so I will see what they have to say. It certainly is consistent with the other reporting, I just mentioned. It is still a terribly sad thing for this mother to endure. I wouldn't want to suggest that bad mothers deserve to lose their children, any more than I would suggest a loose woman deserve to be sexually assaulted, but if we are going to know what happened in a case, we need to know ALL the facts. Not just the ones the media finds convenient to the telling of a good story.

Question from jerri: What crime did Joe Smith's brother commit to make police look at him?

Question from JamiFan: Did the police ever look at John the brother?

Jami Floyd: John Smith's brother was never a suspect, as far as I know. He injected himself into the investigation of the case very early on, before I think they even had the chance to consider him. Interesting, since he and his brother had had a falling out and hadn't spoken in quite some time. Don't know what his record shows, just that he is a "convicted felon" according to police records. Since he's a key witness, you can bet his record will be coming out at trial.

Question from jerri: Was the owner of the yellow car ever a suspect?

Jami Floyd: No, Jeff Pincus was never a suspect. Indeed, the only other person who came close to being a suspect is ..... (drumroll please) you guessed it, Ron Choquette. Some who saw the video thought it looked like Ron Choquette and apparently (this will have to be proved in court) he said something like "Yeah, I can see why you would think it looks like me" to police when asked about it. Also, his truck made that weird stop at the gas station -- the one we discussed earlier -- that same day. And he was the last one to see Carlie alive. All making it look pretty bad for Ron. but for one thing -- Ron's DNA wasn't found at the crime scene. John Smith's was. And prosecutors would have been just as happy to prosecute Ron as they are to prosecute John. So the Plan B strategy in this case makes you think, but in the end I don't think it gets you an acquittal. so so so so sorry. JOE JOE JOE. joe smith. not john smith. now i'm gonna have John Smith suing me for libel. their parents weren't very creative when giving out the names...

Question from lakerfan: jami, does the defendant even have a chance of not getting the death penalty? no

Court TV Host: Thanks, Jami!

Jami Floyd: Thank you. I think we'll be in this case live again this time next week. So we'll have lots more to talk about, and with some evidence too. until then, thanks for chatting.

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