ctv_will: Welcome to Court TV Online chats. We're going to talk today about the Mary Kay Letourneau story Our guest is Gregg Olsen, true crime writer whose book came out just a little while ago. You probably remember Letourneau, she's the 34 year old teacher who had a love affair with her 13 yeare old student] She still (even in prison) says she loves the boy. so much so that she had two babies by him. Our guest tonight interviewed her in prison for his book, "If Loving You Is Wrong," and also interviewed many of the key players. Gregg (our guest) is going to be on Court TV's Pros & Cons in about 2 seconds. as soon as he gets off the air, he'll be chatting with us from Seattle. Y'know what else blows my mind about this case is that Mary Letourneau already had a husband and three kids! So it's not like she was some lonely, desperate hag. That's a picture of her in the graphic above left. When she was on trial she said that she wasn't guilty of child rape because she was in love. As I recall, she did some time and then got out on the condition that she wouldn't go near the boy again. Less than three months later they were caught together in a car. And she was sent back to prison. Our guest tonight is Gregg Olsen, veteran true crime writer. Gregg has a few true crime books under his belt, so in addition to asking about the Letourneau case, he is probably open to questions about being a true crime writer. Gregg learned in researching his book that Letourneau used to play music in class so that she could dance with her 13 year old lover. slow dance that is... What do you think of this case? If they're in love does the age matter? Would you feel the same if it was a male teacher? Ok, Pros & Cons just finished with our guest Gregg Olsen, so we'll give him some time to wash the make up off his face, and then we'll get started. What is the difference between a pedophile and a child rapist? I'm not sure. Which do you think Letourneau is? Sicko or romantic? Ok, I've got true crime writer Gregg Olsen here. Welcome. Gregg Olsen: Thank you for having me. testesboy asks: How old is the boy now? Gregg Olsen: 16 saweetie2 asks: do you believe her...that she loves him ,,,,this boy Gregg Olsen: Yes I do. ctv_will: Why is that? Gregg Olsen: I don't believe it's a good healthy love now. She is totally obsessed with Vili, and she's left him with 2 children to raise. At 16 years old he's confused and trying to be a man--so how can that be a healthy love for anybody? It's an obsessive love. It might serve Mary, but how can it be good for a 16 year old boy trying to get on with his life? saweetie2 asks: where is he now? Gregg Olsen: Living with his mother in Seattle. I believe he starts school this week. I think he missed the first week or two. ctv_will: Is school hell for him? Gregg Olsen: From what I understand, he is very--he's been in the public eye for so long, I think he's probably a target for people who want to hang around with someone who is "famous" so it's difficult for him to tell who is sincere and who just wants to say they knew the guy who bedded his teacher. I've not met him, but from what I understand there is a very sensative side to him, and this whole thing has hurt and confused him. bubbah72 asks: has she had her 2nd baby yet & if so are his parents taking it to raise also Gregg Olsen: Yes, she had the baby. It's 8 or 9 months old now. The grandmother is raising both children. Shiva1234 asks: what was her sentencing, i forget? How much time will she really serve out of the sentencing? HollyinTX asks: will she and vili get ba together when she gets out Gregg Olsen: She was sentenced to about 7 years, and she'll probably do the entire time. She may get out in 2004. She has not earned any good behaviour in prison, and she may not. She is very defiant. Mary says that when she gets out she will be united with him and her two children and he has said that he doesn't know what the future holds but he hopes they will eventually be a family. daisypusher23 asks: Is the boy one of those kids who's 13 going on 35? Gregg Olsen: I'll tell you that other teachers and kids in the class did not see what Mary saw. She saw an old soul, a mature boy who was the equal to any man she ever met, but others did not see that. They did say that he was very sensative and artistic for his age, But he is a teenager who acts like a teen and looks like a teen and likes teen music. He is not a 35 year old, he is a 16 year old with 2 children. bubbah72 asks: Is Forbidden Love available now & what other books hae you written ctv_will: "Forbidden Love" is just the title I gave the chat becuase I couldn't fit the whole book title in the little graphic. Gregg Olsen: The book is called "If Loving You Is Wrong" and it came out in August. I have written 5 other crime books. You can find out about them at www.greggolsen.com mistro3199 asks: Was her husband abusive? Gregg Olsen: There was no indication that he was abusive prior to the incident with Vili, but there are police reports indicating domestice violence after Mary became pregnant. roxworld asks: On what Was Mary imprisoned as a rapist or a pedophile? I don't know what the legal basis was. Gregg Olsen: She was convicted of 2nd degree rape of a child and she pled guilty to that charge- with the provision that she would have treatment in a sexual deviancy program. She didn't complete that program becuase she did not want to admit to her kids that she was a pedophile, and that was one of the condtions of the program. In lieu of the prison sentence she opted for treatment, but when she refused treatment, that's what sent her back to prison. ctv_will: And there are no other reports of her being sexual with other kids? Gregg Olsen: That's correct. I looked everywhere that I could, her past, her profession, her neighbors. There is no other incident in her life where I could determine she might have had other inappropriate contact with a minor. He was her sole focus. And I really don't believe that another boy would be at risk when she's released. sassylasha asks: Did they do a psy work up on her, and wasn't she found to be manic depressive Gregg Olsen: She was diagnosed bipolar. ctv_will: Can you tell that by talking to her? Gregg Olsen: The things that she says about the boy and her love for him sound absolutely crazy to all of us--the message that she gives. But the way she gives that message so emphatically makes you believe that she really truly does love him. I had one person tell me the other day, and I agree, that when you talk to her, everything she says seems so clear, but when you think back on it, when you play the tape back in your mind you say 'that just doesn't make any sense.' But when you hear her in person, it sounds believable. roxannealex asks: does her boyfriend have contact with her Gregg Olsen: No, there is a no contact order between Mary, Vili, and Vili's mother. Which is a serious problem in that Mary and Vili do have 2 children together and the grandmother who is raising the kids--they have no way to communicate becuase of this court order. HollyinTX asks: does she answer her fan mail? Gregg Olsen: She does answer some mail, and she does get fan mail. If you like, there is also www.marykayletourneau.com where you can find addresses where you can write to. ctv_will: Do a lot of people sympathize with her? Gregg Olsen: I think more people outside of our country do. She had her own book out in France and I think 8 other countries and it was Mary and Vili's version of what had happend- so obviously it was in a positive light. It is not a crime book, but it was very well received. It has not found a publisher in the United States. roxannealex asks: how much is your book? Gregg Olsen: "If Loving You Is Wrong" is 6.50 ctv_will: Paperback. kansas_cookie_99 asks: is she seeing her 2 additional children while in prison? Gregg Olsen: She had her first visit with any of her children over Labor Day weekend. She saw her fist child Georgia Alexis. She has not seen the other 5 children she has. bubbah72 asks: Did the father of her 4 take them out of the country and does she have visitation rights now or when she gets out Gregg Olsen: The father moved the children to Alaska. The divorce and child custody issues have been resolved so Mary will have her fist visit with her 4 children who have been living with their father for the first time in 2 years. I think these visits with her children will be good in taking her mind away from Vili who she cann't see or talk to. These visits with the children will be something real. michaelangelos_painting asks: What does Letourneau's immediate family feel about this strange relationship? Gregg Olsen: They have never commented publicly about her relatinship with Vili. I know that one brother supports Mary and has seemingly supported the relationship. I don't know how active a role her parents will play in their lives. So far they have not been very active. ctv_will: Doesn't her father have something weird like this in his past? Gregg Olsen: That's right. The father, John Schmitz, former US Congressman-- It was revealed that he had an affair and 2 children with a campaign worker. This was in the early 80's. He was an arch-conservative from Orange County, CA, and this certainly didn't do his carreer any good. In fact, he never held office again. grubsmack asks: Who are we to say that they do not belong together, who are we to judge human emotion? Gregg Olsen: That's a good question. I don't judge the emotion. In fact, as I said, I think Mary is quite convincing in her statements of love for the father of her babies. But it is against the law for a grown woman to be in love with a child- sexually. We don't know how somebody really feels, but we do have rules and law to protect young people. Maybe Mary really did love him from first sight, but the question is whether it is legal, and the answer is no. roxannealex asks: what prison is she in? Gregg Olsen: The women's prison in Purdy, Washington. michaelangelos_painting asks: Regarding Mary's other children by her ex-husband, does Mary ever felt the need to explain this situation is in to her children? Gregg Olsen: That issue is of concern to the ex-husband becuase Mary insists that it was love and she's not going to deny that to her children. adonaldson1 asks: Has any family members recieved money for interviews? Gregg Olsen: Yeah, his family has received money from the American Journal, Inside edition, and The Globe. The biggest payday for the family came with the publication of the book in France. Reportedly more that 200,000 dollars. My understanding is that the money is being held in trust for all six of mary's children. ctv_will: Did you have to pay for interviews in your book? Gregg Olsen: No I did not. Although I was certianly asked by, seems like, just about everybody thought they should get paid, but I have never paid for an interview and never will. The student who took a picture of Vili for the my book cover was paid for the photo by my publisher. SANDI_34_F asks: From the interview's i have seen with Mary Kay Letorneau, i do believe she has a true love for the boy, hard to understand, but, i think she really loves him.......does she have any support system from her family or friends? Gregg Olsen: The only visitor that I know of is Susan Gehrke, who visits weekly. That's it. I believe she may have seen her parents twice since she's been incarcerated. I don't believe any of her siblings have been to visit her since she's been in prison. ctv_will: Is she angry abou that? Gregg Olsen: Mary doesn't get angry about anything. She has this positive attitude that carries her throughout the day. I've never seen her mad, but I know other people have. Even when someone betrays her to the media-- lawyer, friend, whatever, she still says that that person is a part of her life, they may have drifted apart, but she'll never forget what they mean to her. And there are a lot of people who have sold her out. In the Globe that's just out today there is a paroled felon who tells the story of her lesbian love affair in prison. That's just out today. rmintercarr asks: Is she still on medication? What does the mental health expects in the prison suggest for her?. Gregg Olsen: She is not on medication, she refuses any treatment of any kind. Therefore there will be no treatment. Her previous psychiatrist had her of depakote as a mood stabilizer, and they felt is was successful and a good treatment, but Mary didn't like how she felt on it so she stopped taking it. Then, of course, she was arrested the second time. baileytice asks: What's in the book that hasn't already been in the papers? Gregg Olsen: Many of the people who have read the book, close to the case, have told me that there has been too much focus on their unusual "love story," and that my book focuses in a different direction. The lawyer for Vili said he didn't know 60% of what was in the book. Nobody every talked to the people who were around Mary to find out what they saw. And those are the people with the most objective view of what happened. Sometimes people who are closest to a story are the worst sources for a book. I did talk to her and put her in the book, but it's not an authorized biography. If you want to understand what really happened, this is what you should read. Comments on Amazon point out that no matter what side of the fence you're on, this book broadens your position from that perspective. If you think the relationship was Ok, this book will help you understand more about what was OK about it. If you think this relationship was bad, this book will help you understand more of what was bad about it. adonaldson1 asks: Was Mary sexually abused as a child? Gregg Olsen: She claims she wasn't. She did have some sexual experimentation with her brother. Friends say it was more serious sexual abuse than just playing doctor. Mary, however, denies that. michaelangelos_painting asks: who is Susan Gehrke? Gregg Olsen: She's the wife of David Gehrke, Mary's first criminal lawyer. David298 asks: I would like to ask Mr. Olson how he went about gathering information for his book Gregg Olsen: First of all, I hired a research assistant becuase with these kinds of books, it's all in the background and the research that you do. I created a time line for everything I could think of her in her life. I created a phone list of every number of every person in her life. And went about trying to get interviews The hard part was the money issue. So many people had been paid by the media that they were already under contract, or they insisted on being paid. A good true crime book is all about the research. With the Mary Letourneau story, you see the media stories and you ask 'what else is there', and in this case, when you look, there is a lot more to find. One of my big breaks was when Mary called me. I wrote to her right after she was incarcerated, and she responded by phone saying that she was under contract with the French but she would point me in the direction of friends and others. I appreciated that. Later, we talked regularly on the telephone and I was able to get more information directly from her. minne_mouse_143 asks: Is she and her husband divorced now and if so is he remarried Gregg Olsen: He is not re-married, but he does have a baby by his new girlfriend. The divorce was only finalized recently. This is all very recent. roxworld asks: Who has the movie rights to this story?? Gregg Olsen: My understanding is that Susan Gherke, the wife of Mary's criminal lawyer is the one who sold her rights for the USA picures cable movie "All American Girl." hurricaneroxanne asks: What was she thinking, getting caught for the second time in a car practically the minute she was released? Gregg Olsen: This is very interesting. She says that she knew she was going back to prison no matter what because she felt that she could never abide by the treatment program-- she could never tell her children that their mother was a child molester. I asked her that very question and she said that she knew that she was going back to prison anyway, it was just a matter of time. She didn't try to hide. I don't think she believed she'd be going back for 7 years. I think she thought the world would snap out of it and realize that the boy and this grown woman loved each other. I think the still thinks that. Like she would say, "That the world would look at this with a reasonable eye." ctv_will: Ok, we're at the end of our hour. Thank yuou very much Gregg Olsen. Gregg Olsen: Thanks very much. ctv_will: again, Gregg's web site is www.greggolsen.com that has the latest book and also his other 4 If you missed any of this, I'll have the transcript up on the CTV website after the weekend pardon me while a roll a few credits... This chat was brought to you by the good folks at Court TV Online www.courttv.com Keep up on CTV chats on the CTV Talk page www.courttv.com/talk or at the CTV Yahoo club clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/theofficialcourttvclub where no question (that won't get me fired) goes unanswered I'll have a link to Gregg's site on the CTV Viewer Book list on the Talk page as well. oldermumforfamilyfun asks: what is the fixation with age in this world - whats so wrong with loving people before they are 18 ctv_will: I don't have an answer for that, but I'm sure there are about a million people in the chat rooms who have something to say about that. You must not have kids. Or if you do...*shudders* gagagoogoo4 asks: Where can I write to Mary??? I am her supporter, big time. ctv_will: We answered this earlier in the chat, but since I can see what a big supporter you are... Gregg says she has a web site. try www.marykayletourneau.com I haven't been there, but that's the address he gave. I think it has a mailing address on it. Too bad the boy doesn't have a website, he could probably use some support too. --that is to say, I feel more sorry for the boy than for Mary. scott_md_1654 asks: hey Mary is making money using her website? ctv_will: I'm sure she's not. Even the stuff she IS making money on only goes into trusts for her kids. It's probably maintained by some fan. There's something about Mary... :D I can't see the cross chat, did someone already make that joke? kansas_cookie_99 asks: yes will ctv_will: sorry adonaldson1 asks: How many children does Mary have with her ex-husband and the boy? ctv_will: Let's see.... I guess it's six all together. 4 by the husband and 2 by the student. Although if I were the husband I would have a hard time sleeping until the paternity test results come in. I wonder if he had those done. adonaldson1 asks: Does Mary understand that she did something wrong? adonaldson1 asks: Does the boy understand that his relationship with Mary was wrong? ctv_will: I don't think so. Mary still insists so strongly that she and the boy are soul mates she refuses to admit that there is anything wrong with what she did-- I should clarify, she refuses to deny her love for him. As for the boy, Gregg describes him as confused. I think he still says he loves her and wants to be a family when she gets out, but he was 13 when it happened and only 16 now, so what do you expect him to say? adonaldson1 asks: Has the boy had another girlfriend since Mary? ctv_will: Ooo, that's a good question, I wish I had seen that before. I don't know. scott_md_1654 asks: Mary didn't know to use a condom? ctv_will: That's a good one too, but I have a better answer: In Gregg's book, he interviews some girls who used to babysit for Mary and they talk about how much she loved being pregnant. They said all of her regular clothes sort of doubled as maternity clothes, and when she was with child she never complained about morning sickness or weight gain or anything. She liked having kids. I wouldn't be surprised if she got pregnant on purpose. David298 asks: CTV how do i go about getting a job like yours? Also, plese tell the hosts on CourtTV to stop talking so much ctv_will: LOL :D Before I had this job I didn't even know it existed. I don't know how anyone would get a job like this except to say that my official title is "producer of online communities" for Court TV, so I guess that's the ad you should look for in the paper. As for the on-air folks-- not my department. I know them and all, but i'm certainly in no position to tell them (or anyone else for that matter) what to do. hautbrion asks: In the Jewish faith, a boy is a man at 13. ctv_will: Good point. I think that's why her book did so well in Europe. Other cultures have a lower age limit for stuff like this. Although something that I have to say is that if Mary were a man and Vili were a woman, I don't know if there would be this many supporters. I guess circumstances would be completely different then though. Ok, that's enough for me. As you can see by the graphic, our next chat is our weekly crime andjustice news chat where the topic is determined by the questions. That's next Wednesday at 6pET. And we'll also be talking about what's wrong with the jury system. on Thursday at 8pET Thanks again to all who came out tonight. This chat has ended, you may go in peace. :)