Transcript Court TV Host: We're going to be talking to journalist Jack Jones about March David Chapman, the man who shot John Lennon ctv_comment: As many of you know, Mark David Chapman's parole hearing is tomorrow. And the Court TV documentary about the murder, Death of a Beatle, is airing tonight at 10pm. Jack Jones' exclusive interviews are included in the program. Actually, the reason that he's not here right now is that he's on the Court TV program Pros and Cons, which is airing right now. Court TV Host: Jack Jones is on line and we're just about ready to begin. Jack Jones: Hello everyone, from the biographer of the most unpopular man on earth. greenacres72101 asks: How did you become the expert on Lennon? Jack Jones: I don't pretend to be the expert on Lennon. I do, however, have the dubious distinction of being the expert on Lennon's killer. Marty2634 asks: Hello Jack, Has Mark David Chapman expressed remorse for his killing of John Lennon in your interviews which make up this documentary? Jack Jones: He has expressed remorse, and I believe that he is intellectually aware and remorseful. Mark, however, was a sociopath, and maybe once you are a sociopath, you are always sociopathic to some degree. Therefore, it's difficult to say whether he can be remorseful in a heartfelt way. warhorse46 asks: Has Mark David been diagnosed with any type of mental illness & if so is he on any medications? Jack Jones: Inside the prison he has not been diagnosed with any sort of mental condition. byrtle asks: Is Chapman on medication now? Jack Jones: He has refused to undergo therapy or to take medication. He believes that he has been healed of the severe depression by virtue of his fervent Christian beliefs. cnm4eva asks: When did Mr. Chapman claim to have been changed spiritually? Jack Jones: Mark's spiritual change has followed a very long progression. He evolved from a Beatle worshipper and young drug addict at age 14 into an overnight Christian while he was taking LSD, which he believed the Beatles had advocated. After his conversion to Christ, John Lennon made the unfortunate remark that the Beatles were more popular than Jesus and sang the song, "Imagine There's No Heaven." This deeply offended Chapman's Christian identity and subconsciously I'm certain he began plotting John Lennon's death at that time, a full decade before he murdered the rock legend. okc4u asks: What possible reason would a religious conversion have to do with whether or not this man is now shown leniency? Jack Jones: That would be a question for the parole board to consider, which they will. But often in the past the question of religious beliefs has been known to carry weight before parole authorities. warhorse46 asks: What is the make-up of the parole board that will make this decision? How many males & females & how old are they? Jack Jones: I don't know. My understanding is that it is a carefully chosen and representative body of men and women. Marty2634 asks: Hello Jack, Will Yoko Ono or anybody from John Lennon's family or friends be attending the parole hearing for Mark David Chapman tomorrow? Jack Jones: As far as anyone knows, no one other than Mark David Chapman and the parole board will be present at his hearing. Romeo_4123 asks: What did the other Beatles think about the parole hearing tomorrow? Jack Jones: No one, as far as I know, has consulted the other Beatles. John Lennon's son has spoken out against his parole. And it's rumored that Yoko Ono has also requested that he remain in prison. I don't imagine that Ringo, George and Paul, especially in light of the recent attack on George Harrison, would support Mark's parole. bairesgirl1 asks: You said he was diagnosed as a sociopath? Or not been diagnosed? Jack Jones: Mark diagnosed himself as a sociopath, and others who have reviewed the cold and calculating manner in which he plotted to carry out an act of evil have also diagnosed his behavior as sociopathic. Chapman himself has said that at the time he murdered Lennon he was incapable of having feelings towards anyone other than himself. That's the classic definition of a sociopath. elvis_biskit asks: Are you, Mr. Jones, in favor of Chapman being released? Jack Jones: I am neither in favor nor am I opposed. My role is that objective and scientific one of an independent observer, gathering information so that others may make more informed decisions. In my book I examine every aspect of the brutal crime from the standpoint of trying to prevent another such tragedy from every happening again. honey_crash asks: You've spoken with Mark David Chapman - what's your opinion - is he sane? Jack Jones: Mark David Chapman was extremely paranoid and delusional. It took me six years to gain his trust. In the past ten years I have seen Mark evolve into someone who I now believe can be trusted. I don't believe that Mark Chapman would ever kill another human being. warhorse46 asks: Is Mark still married & are there any children? Jack Jones: Mark is still married to his wife, Gloria, whom he married about two years before he was imprisoned. They have no children. Gloria, like Mark, is very religious and visits him at the prison two or three times a year. warhorse46 asks: Does Mark`s family still have any contact with him? Jack Jones: Mark's father, whom he at one time hated, visited him three years ago for the first and only time at Attica. A few months later, his father died. Mark's mother, who has remarried, visits her son several times a year. sonny_rae_ia asks: If he gets out, does he have a family support group to help him? Jack Jones: Yes. His wife has spoken to me of hoping that someday she and Chapman can live relatively anonymously and have a quiet life centered around church activities. sandycarr.rm asks: How, if he does get out, does he plan to atone for his actions? Jack Jones: Chapman, if he is released, says that he hopes to speak to others about the evil that he said he invited into his soul to help him commit the horrible crime. Mark is a very persuasive speaker who probably, had he not become a convicted murderer, would have been an evangelist. VisionAiryDreamer asks: What plans does Chapman have, if any, if and when he is released from prison? Does anything lead you to believe that he would bring further harm to the community? warhorse46 asks: What makes you believe he won't kill again? Jack Jones: No one can ever say that another human being with certainty will never kill, especially if that person has killed once. But after knowing Chapman for sixteen years, I am confident that the only person on earth he felt a compulsion to kill was John Lennon. He killed Lennon in part because he wanted to rob the rock legend of a portion of his fame. He has done that to his own eternal regret and perhaps his own damnation. luvmoosik asks: Have you ever talked to any of Mark Chapman's family? If so, What do they think about parole for Mark? Jack Jones: Both his mother and his wife have said that they would like to see him given another chance. He specifically asked them not to write letters to the parole board on his behalf. i_am_judy_girl asks: Is there a good chance that Chapman will be granted parole? Jack Jones: I think there is only a remote chance that he will be granted parole tomorrow. I do believe that some time in the next twenty years, however, he will be released from prison because he is described by guards and prison authorities as a reformed man and a model prisoner. brandilynn1991 asks: Does he want to get out? I mean I'm sure he does but is he afraid someone is out there gunning for him? Jack Jones: He is aware that there will likely be people gunning for him if he is released. He receives written threats almost every day from people who say they will kill him if he is released from prison. He has said that if he is released he will nonetheless speak publicly about his horrible crime and risk being killed by someone else. I suspect that he may seek to be something of a martyr for the Christian cause that he believes in. mark_croxford_2000 asks: How many, if any, attempts on his life have been made against him while in he's been in jail? Jack Jones: Mark is held today in a protective environment separate from the general population where there are convicted killers serving life sentences who would kill him just as Jack Ruby killed Lee Harvey Oswald. empress_of_fashion asks: How does Chapman differ from say, John Hinckley? How are their cases alike? Jack Jones: Hinckley was something of a copycat Mark David Chapman, who like Chapman, carried a copy of "Catcher in the Rye" and was obsessed by a celebrity. Hinckley, however, was found not guilty by reason of insanity and remains in a mental hospital. Chapman, to his credit, refused his lawyer's efforts to have him plead insanity. He, instead, because God advised him to, he said, admitted his guilt. Which he continues to do. nanclyde77008 asks: Doesn't he seem to have a lot in common with John Hinckley? They even look alike to me. Jack Jones: The only resemblance between John Hinckley and Mark Chapman is physical. John Hinckley from my understanding is a far different and, I believe, a far more dangerous individual than Chapman. Hinckley also stands a better chance of being allowed to return to society than Chapman, which should be of equal concern for persons who fear for the safety of other innocent victims. spez38 asks: Is there a measure that will be used to demonstrate rehabilitation on Mark's behalf? Jack Jones: Other than what he tells the parole board and the board's own gut feeling, and whatever scientific criteria the parole board may use, I don't know of a more specific gauge. VisionAiryDreamer asks: At what point in his life do you think Chapman became deranged? Was there a particular event in his childhood worth noting> Jack Jones: I suspect that early on he was very sensitive and that his parents' anger towards each other intruded upon his normal development. He retreated from a very early age into a fantasy world, which I describe in great detail in my book. That world consisted of little people who inhabited a universe within the walls of his family's suburban Atlanta home. When things were going well, and his parents were not fighting, Mark treated his little subjects by playing Beatles music for them. When he was undergoing emotional stress, he would use an imaginary nuclear device to annihilate millions of them. When Mark killed John Lennon, he said he was undergoing a "nuclear rage" -- that if he would have been able to get his hands on an atomic bomb, he would have used it to kill millions of innocent people. He knew and he consciously reasoned, that by murdering John Lennon he could inflict pain on millions of Beatles fans all over the world. flatcat65 asks: You sound like you like him, do you? Jack Jones: Anyone who takes the time to get to know Mark Chapman cannot help but feel some compassion for his fragility. Other than the fact that he's the man who killed John Lennon, Mark Chapman is a disarmingly likeable person. ns_debi asks: Why didn't Chapman get the death penalty? Jack Jones: There was no death penalty in New York state at the time Chapman killed Lennon. I asked him in July how he responded to people who say he should have been executed. I was astonished by his answer: "Maybe I should have been executed," he said. He added that he is very thankful that he has been allowed to live, even in a place like Attica prison. That realization, he said, makes him even more remorseful when he realizes that he robbed another human being of that opportunity. whitedaisyus asks: What was the purpose of Chapman's obsession with, "Catcher in the Rye"? Jack Jones: At the age of 25, Chapman was probably an emotional 15 year-old. There is a phenomenon in the literature of fictional personalities. Some people come to believe that they are another fictional personage. Mark, when he turned away from Christianity, believed that the Catcher in the Rye was his bible. His decision to go from Honolulu to New York City, to hang around in Central Park, to hire a prostitute, to get a gun, was a twisted re-enactment of Holden Caulfield's coming of age in New York City. In many ways, he retraced Holden Caulfield's steps before killing the man that he had made himself believe was the ultimate "phony". He believed in some way that by killing Lennon he could stop the rock star from leading astray another generation of innocent youth. fchadferrell asks: How could communicate with him? Jack Jones: I was working as a journalist at Attica and also participating as a volunteer counselor with Vietnam veteran groups at Attica. A friend of mine, to whom I dedicated my book, Harold Steele, introduce me to Chapman, who initially became alarmed when I told him I was a newspaper reporter. We had minor contact exchanging a few letters, visits and phone calls until 1990. During which time Chapman said he expected that I would "sell him out". by writing a tabloid story about him. I kept my word about the confidentiality of our meeting and in 1990 when every reporter on the planet was trying to contact him for an interview he wrote and asked that I visit him at the prison. During that meeting he gave me a two-paragraph statement expressing remorse I told him that would raise more questions than it answered and that if he was serious we should sit Down and conduct a series of meaningful interviews in which he himself dissected his mental condition and all the factors which led him to murder a man he did not know. He said that he would pray about my suggestion and get back to me. He did so, and I wrote a series of stories for the Rochester Democrat and Chronicle, which were carried by the news media worldwide. And that evolved into my book, "Let Me Take You Down" a thorough examination of why Chapman killed Lennon. ctv_host: Do you have any closing thoughts? Jack Jones: If people fail to try to understand why the whole tragedy was allowed to happen, it only increases the chance that similar tragedies will happen again. Mark had a great deal in common with the demented teens who killed their classmates at Columbine High School in Colorado. These people have common underlying characteristics which need to be examined so that other innocent people can live with a greater sense of security.