The lawyer for a woman battling her transsexual husband over custody of their two children scrapped with a court-appointed psychologist Friday over the harm their father's transsexualism might have done to the children.

Attorney Claudia Wheeler charged that the young son of Michael Kantaras frequently saw his father removing socks — used to sculpt a penis-like bulge — from his groin area, and even imitated his father at times, a claim she told the court she will substantiate when she presents her case next week.

"Let's talk about a little boy putting socks in his pants. You think that that might have given Matthew some problems in that area?" the lawyer asked Dr. Robert Dies during cross-examination.

When the doctor demurred, the lawyer continued, "How often does a normal man think about his penis in a given hour?"

Laughing, the doctor replied, "I don't know."

"It's a lot, isn't it Dr. Dies?" she asked.

"I don't think so," Dies said.

"It's a very important part of his body, yes?" Wheeler asked.

Whether or not his father has one," the doctor answered.

Dies had testified Thursday that he believed Michael Kantaras, 42, would be the best parent for the two children he shares with Linda Kantaras, a 33-year-old substitute teacher, regardless of his lack of a penis. Kantaras underwent hormone therapy and breast, uterus and ovary removal to become a man but did not have surgery to implant a penis.

Linda Kantaras

On Friday, Wheeler asked the doctor whether he had left out the effect Kantaras' transsexualism might have had on the children when making his decision about which parent was more suitable.

"Michael did not come to me as a transgendered individual. He came to me as a parent who loves his children," Dies replied. "What's between his legs, to me, is not a relevant issue, other than the impact to the children. And the children have come a long way in the past two and half years in coming to terms with that."

Michael Kantaras adopted Matthew Kantaras, now 12, soon after the couple was married in 1989. Ten-year-old Irina Kantaras was born in 1992 using sperm from Michael Kantaras' brother.

Linda Kantaras entered the marriage with the knowledge that her husband was born Margo Kantaras, and the two maintained a happy life together for nine years. But their union came crashing down in 1998 when Michael Kantaras filed for divorce, leaving his wife for one of her best friends.

Over the next three years, a bitter custody battle ensued, with Dies and a group of therapists caught in the middle.

Linda Kantaras says their marriage — and her husband's custody claims — should be considered invalid because he is still legally a female and same-sex marriages are not recognized under Florida law.

Wheeler

Dies testified Thursday that Linda Kantaras had attempted to sabotage her husband's relationship with the children.

"My sense was at that point Linda was seriously labeling Michael, putting him down, and essentially blaming Michael and Sherry [his mistress] totally for the failure of a marriage," he said.

Wheeler raised this point during her cross-examination, asking, "It's not your testimony that they're blameless ... for any of the trauma in this situation, is it, Mr. Dies? It's not your contention that it's [Linda Kantaras'] fault?"

Dies conceded that Michael Kantaras' breakup of the marriage could have contributed to the problems he noted in the children — which included anger and stress management difficulties, as well as self-esteem problems — but said the patterns he observed in them were too deep-seated to be attributed solely to the situation.

Wheeler addressed a November 2001 incident when Linda Kantaras had approached Dies, prepared to reveal to her children that their father was not their father — nor was he a man.

"You let this undereducated, not-too-bright-of-a-lightbulb off the phone with those instructions, didn't you?" the lawyer alleged, referring to her client.

Dies replied that he had struggled with his role as an independent evaluator and had to refrain from acting as a psychologist.

"Isn't it true, Dr. Dies, that you don't believe one single word my client tells you?" charged Wheeler.

"That is not true," Dr. Robert Dies replied calmly, peering over the brim of his reading glasses.

Dies

Wheeler leveled a series of soft-spoken, but pointed, attacks at the psychologist, cutting short many of his answers as he attempted to rebuff her.

But Dies weathered the cross-examination calmly, keeping his testimony restricted to his observations and "12 inches of notes" on the case, and was even able to summon additional details about Linda Kantaras' attitude that appeared to bolster Michael Kantaras' case.

At one point, the psychologist recalled, Linda Kantaras had told him, "If the court says joint custody, I don't want my kids."

Asked about the feasibility of shared custody by Circuit Court Judge Gerard O'Brien — who has taken an active role in this trial and will ultimately rule which parent gets custody of the children — Dies replied, "This is a high conflict couple in many ways."

Testimony will continue Monday at 9:30 a.m. The trial is being broadcast live on Court TV.