Jerry Springer's appearance before the Chicago City Council and Alderman Edward Burke became contentious at times.(Court TV)

CHICAGO (Court TV) — Insisting that his talk show does not glorify violence, Jerry Springer told the Chicago City Council Friday that the fights on his show are real and that security guards can use their discretion in deciding whether to arrest pugilistic guests.

The Council held a hearing Friday to decide whether to pass a resolution requiring undercover officers working as "Jerry Springer" security guards to arrest pugnacious guests.

In April, city council member Alderman Edward Burke, who proposed the resolution, said he was disturbed by the program's violence and by the fact that off-duty officers working as security guards on the show had not taken action. The officers later explained their restraint by arguing that they did not know whether the fights were real or staged.

Alderman Burke wanted Springer to state, for the record, whether the fights were staged or real. If they were real, Burke argued, undercover officers should be required to make arrests. Off-duty officers are required under Illinois law to make an arrest or call 911 in cases that need police enforcement.

Had the fights been staged, Springer would have been required to obtain an entertainment license that would legalize the "violence."

The hearing quickly turned into a battle between council members, who appeared offended by the raucous nature of the program, and Springer, who was determined to defend his right to present his show, no matter how offensive or violent the content.

The so-called "Ringmaster" insisted that his talk show, unlike other TV shows and movies, does not glorify violence. Springer suggested his show actually illustrates that violence is not glamorous. Most of his viewers, he said, would never want to behave as some of his guests do.

"There's a lot of wrestling and rolling around that goes on on the show. I'll admit that," Springer said. But I suggest that the violence we see in other media such as television dramas and movies never looks very bad. To most viewers watching [these shows or movies] it looks very enticing. The people who fight on [my] show never look glamorous. The guy loses the girl. The audience boos the person who can't act correctly and berates the person. I do a commentary at the end of the show. No other program or movie can say they do that."

However, while suggesting with a straight face that his show had an altruistic goal, Springer also described it as "chewing gum" and acknowledged that people may watch it to be entertained. He admitted that his show intends to be outrageous and that guests — and their stories — have to be outrageous.

Springer said that his producers do not encourage guests to fight and that a lawyer explains the possible consequences of fighting to all guests on the show.

When fights erupt, Springer told the Council, the security guards can use their discretion to arrest the combatants. Insisting that he has never discouraged his security detail from making arrests, Springer pointed out that accosted guests have a right to file complaints.

"A person has the right to file a complaint," Springer said. "It's been done ... we don't discourage it."

Still, when asked whether guests should be arrested, Springer tried to avoid the question and said that he did not know the intentions of his pugilistic guests. He said he did not know whether his guests were exaggerating their actions and emotions because they were on television.

Springer acknowledged that some of his guests and producers have made up stories on the program.

At times, the hearing almost resembled a "Jerry Springer" program. Springer brought some of his audience members from a television taping as well as his camera crew to the hearing. Although they did not chant "Jerry! Jerry," Springer's supporters openly applauded some of his answers, prompting one alderman to ask the head of the council, Alderman William Beavers, to make sure the meeting did not turn into a "circus."

Alderman Burke focused on Springer's admission that some of the show's hired security guards travel with him on promotional trips to places such as Cancun, Mexico. Burke suggested that these undercover officers would not likely do their jobs and arrest guests because they thought it was in their best interest not to extinguish ratings-grabbing violence. However, Alderman Beavers, who maintained order in the council meeting, argued that Springer's security guards could still do their jobs and accompany him on trips.

The exchange between Springer and Burke became heated at times. Burke became frustrated by the talk show host's periodically glib answers. And Springer became flustered by a perceived invasion of his privacy. Springer refused to provide answers about the details of his contract and salary, saying that he did not understand how they related to the issue before the Council. "We have to be very careful here," Springer said to Burke. "You're the government, and this is America. I don't want you to think that I'm going to let you control the show. I don't work for you, sir ... I really don't. I'm trying to be respectful."

Despite the heated exchanges and perceived posturing, nothing was accomplished at the end of the hearing. The Council took the issue under advisement and did not decide whether to pass the resolution.

Alderman Beavers suggested that the hearing may have not served any purpose when he pointed out that Studios USA, which owns and distributes "The Jerry Springer Show", recently announced that violence and vulgarity would be eliminated from the program. When Beavers asked Springer whether the show would comply with the mandate, Springer nodded and said sheepishly, "Yeah ... yeah."

Studios USA had made a similar vow in April 1998. Although Springer said that he was "not going to buckle" to studio pressure, a "cleaner" Jerry Springer Show did hit the airwaves last year. Ratings dropped, however, and soon afterwards, the chair-swinging and profanity returned.

This year Springer opted not to publicly repudiate Studios USA's promise, and recent editions of the show have been noticeably toned-down. Still, it remains to be seen whether the ratings will drop. Given the media attention that Springer's appearance before the Chicago City Council generated, the ratings may go up without the violence — at least for the time being.

— Bryan Robinson