Mr. McMillen: But they're not murderers. They would not, they're not murderers. They're not, they're not bringing drugs up from Colombia and they're not in that business. But … I I his statement was very creditable. And … I thought about them. And if you can get money out of people you you have a a certain kind of personality. I have found in the community getting people to support various causes and come up with money is not exactly easy. But he does it very easily.

Interviewer: Apparently. (LAUGHTER)

Mr. McMillen: Yes. Apparently he does. So he has a way about 'em of getting money out of people. Particularly women. So I think if you were in a cell with 'em and he has that kind of personality, you might spill the beans.

Interviewer: And he says specifically that Labrador confessed to him.

Mr. McMillen: Yes he did. Um hum.

Interviewer: Are you confident they will come up with other corroborating evidence?

Mr. McMillen: I am.

Interviewer: Because this far … all these DNA tests have proved not.

Mr. McMillen: Um hum.

Interviewer: You think the case is solid?

Mr. McMillen: Hope so. Cause I do believe that they're … that these men are all involved.

Interviewer: Is there any concern .. and again this is a bit of a Devil's Advocate talking about what I've, what I have read and heard. that the Tortola authorities are very concerned about impressions tourist's might have. And it would be better if an American was murdered by Americans.

Mr. McMillen: Oh no, oh no, oh no. no.

Interviewer: No?

Mr. McMillen: No. No. #1, I'm the one that sent the Police up there in the first place. The the Police weren't thinking about how is this going to look for the tourist industry. They, they wouldn't have a thought about the tourist industry. Absolutely not.

Interviewer: what did the Police find when they got there?

Mr. McMillen: Pardon?

Interviewer: what did the Police find when they got up to .. Michael's house?

Mr. McMillen: Um … they um …. Inspector Blackmon went up there and Inspector George and when they told the men what had happened they the response was um … not one of surprise. Sort of an off-hand attitude. Sort of um … callous you might say. None of them, not one … said oh well maybe we've got to go down and see Mrs. McMillen to see what we can do to help. Nothing like that. They had a very, very odd response. that's what they found.

Interviewer: what does the community say?

Mr. McMillen: Pardon?

Interviewer: The community in Tortola?

Mr. McMillen: Well, the the community has been very supportive of us. And um … (PAUSE) I think they they felt … they were horrified when when it, Mr. Griffin who was on your program was suggesting that they boycott the BVI. (British Virgin Islands) They were horrified at that. that he would suggest such a thing.

Interviewer: So you feel that the Prosecutor's are are doing their job, taking care of this and doing it in a timely fashion. You don't have a problem? Certainly with the four men I can understand what they're saying. Well it's been a year. But you feel comfortable with the people who who are handling this?

Mr. McMillen: Well I think Mr. Williams is a superb young lawyer and we're very impressed with him. We met the Attorney General. We've met with the Governor, Governor Savage. They had Scotland Yard over there. They've had additional Detective's working on it. But naturally an Island like that … things will move differently than in like New York City or Los Angeles.

Interviewer: Different pace.

Mr. McMillen: Yeah.

Interviewer: what is the … As far as you can tell, what is the schedule? Do you have any sense now of the time line?

Mr. McMillen: Well, as far as I know it's gonna commence on the 15th of March.

Interviewer: And you see no reason, whether it was delays with the evidence, testing … it's it is expected to go forward at that point in time?

Mr. McMillen: Yeah. I know why it was delayed. You know they sent it to England. Um people don't realize that they have to grow cultures. And that takes up to 16 weeks. (PAUSE)

Interviewer: Have you found out anything else about the four. Because I know three are saying we were separated from William Labrador. We have sort of an alibi together. We were together.

Mr. McMillen: Well that men … the the three of them were saying that they took this Cab driver and went over to Cane Garden Bay and they dropped William Labrador off, so he was alone.

Interviewer: And yet there were reports that three men were seen following Lois weren't there?

Mr. McMillen: The … that Moon. that fellow Moon. Yeah.

Interviewer: Uh huh.

Mr. McMillen: But that couldn't have been because … at the time of the death, she was seen at The Jolly Roger up until 10:30. There wasn't enough time to go over to Cane Garden Bay and come back. that's 30 minutes over there and 30 minutes back. And Moon is a Rastafarian, who drinks too much. Awfully nice fella, but he … has that problem. And now he seems to have backed off all of that. Because I run into 'em when I get down there and I say, oh, tell me about when you saw my daughter that night. Well, I saw her a little bit.

Interviewer: So he's not sure?

Mr. McMillen: So I think that that has been discredited, his statement.

Interviewer: All right. Well tell me something else, when you and I were talking about her art, she … it seems … that she had a real sense about her own destiny.

Mr. McMillen: She did, I feel.

Interviewer: Did you think, in hindsight, in reflection, she knew something was going to happen to her?

Mr. McMillen: Not down there, no. Absolutely not down there. No. I just felt that perhaps she knew that her time on Earth was limited. But there wasn't any … nobody was threatening her or anything. She lived a perfectly safe life.

Interviewer: Well, the things that you've described, she had … the religious imagery or concern about women for years. This wasn't .

Mr. McMillen: Oh yes. oh yes.

Interviewer: what was it about the violence against women that captured her so?

Mr. McMillen: The … monstrosities. The awful things that happen to women over there in Bosnia. that she would see either on television or read about in the newspaper.

Interviewer: Did she tell you about that as it began to emerge in her paintings? Did she talk to you about that?

Mr. McMillen: Um hum. She did. (PAUSE)

Interviewer: Was she raised as a religious child? And I don't mean … there's going to church and there is having religion in your life and then there is a much closer association with that subject.

Mr. McMillen: She was raised in a home where she went to Sunday School every week. I was the Chairman of the Sunday School for years and years during those years. So I was involved over there. And then after her Confirmation she stopped going to church.

Interviewer: And yet the spirituality of the religion emerged so strongly in her art.

Mr. McMillen: Yes, yes.

Interviewer: Why do you think that is?

Mr. McMillen: (PAUSE) I don't know. She just … it just .. it was just very strong with her.

Interviewer: Tell me about the painting that is there in Tortola.

Mr. McMillen: The one, the violence against women?

Interviewer: Um hum. Describe it to me.

Mr. McMillen: Well that was done in 1998. It's a rather large painting. It's about this tall and about that wide. Quite, quite big. And it's all like an orange background of flames. And then … in the background coming down is sort of a serpent. And then up here in the left there's an eye with tears and blood coming down. Long eyelashes. And there's a woman breast with a dagger going through it. And then … coming up over the painting there's some serpent's. And the title is violence … The World Is Killing Women. The World Is Killing Women. And when she did it I said, I can't put that up in the Villa. It it's too grim, Lois. But then after her death I hung it. You go down there you'll see it. As you go down the steps into the Villa it's right there. The other paintings she did down there were totally happy. There are gorgeous colors. The opposite.

Interviewer: When did you decide to make the donation to the Waterbury Foundation and really continue her memorial in this way?

Mr. McMillen: When we came back. Um. We wanted to do something to carry on the work that she had started in her own little way. And so um we decided to do that. And this is sort of in her honor. It's the Lois Livingston McMillen Memorial Fund. And we're gonna add to that. But it is going to benefit battered women who have been emotionally, psychologically battered. In this area. Um. Three-fourths of it will go to that. And then also … a fourth is going to go to young women artists, visual art. Through scholarships.

Interviewer: That an extraordinary way to continue her memory. Um. As tragic and horrific as this story is, um, are you, are you at peace with where she is? With ..

Mr. McMillen: Not really. No. But through what we've done, we've tried to turn the hatred and evil into something positive. So that the community will feel, and that we'll feel that something good has come out of it. And it's done us a great deal of good because good will come out of it. We've made that happen. And we're trying to focus on the positive. It's a great healing if you feel you can turn something this awful around. And make it go forward into good. We've, I think we're doing that.

Interviewer: There's no question. Will the outcome of the trial make any difference to you?

Mr. McMillen: Well I I don't know. Not not in the se…that sense because … she's been violently murdered and we've accepted that that happened and now we've tried to think of other women that we don't want to have suffer that same fate. And many abused women die as a result of this, of violence.

Interviewer: Don't you ask yourself … I'm sure every … everyone in a tragic event does. How could this happen to her? She was so concerned about these issues. You had people looking out for her. The Bartenders or

Mr. McMillen: Yeah they did.

Interviewer: So how could this happen to Lois?

Mr. McMillen: Well the only thing I can say to that is that I knew my daughter, very, very well. And … she wouldn't have gone off in a car or picked anyone up that she didn't know and trust. And I just feel that um .. knowing what I know about these four men, they have some serious problems in their background. And some how she got mixed up with the wrong people, thinking they were friends. that's how it happened. Her guard was down. She trusted them. Her guard was down.

Interviewer: What do you say to those who say …

Mr. McMillen: This is not too far from where we live.

Interviewer: Um hum.

Mr. McMillen: And down … I don't want this to be … I've just got to tell ya how it is down there. But they, the driving is horrendous. If we worried about anything it was the driving. Down there they don't know how to drive. They don't lower their lights. They pass on curve. They go too fast. They get into your little space in front. They're just … there are wrecks all over the Island. Once in a while the Government will have a clean sweep and pay and get 'em. And Lois picked up on the idea of painting a car … an old wreck. This is an old wreck.

Interviewer: Um hum.

Mr. McMillen: Which she painted up. There's her Rose on there. And I had a um … a shirt that she wore when she did this. And I'm gonna show ya the shirt. This is part of her anti-drug campaign. And so the idea of this, I don't know whether anybody got it or not. that if you're out doing drugs and drinking you're gonna be in a horrible accident and this is what's gonna happen. So that was another one of her issues that she worked on. Come on in. Yeah. I wanna show 'em that photograph with Lois in front of the car. Just get that one out. that's them. You took my only shoes away. I can't talk around you.

Mr. McMillen You've been up here talking all this time? My goodness.

Interviewer: Well so…society's question. United Against Drugs. Stop Drug Lord's in South America. Let's Help, Drugs Kill. Addict's Need Sobriety.

Mr. McMillen: Yeah.

Interviewer: So this … (PAUSE) so this … did people around the Island know? Obviously with all of her work, the car, this. Did they know this was a real mission of hers?

Mr. McMillen I think they did.

Mr. McMillen: I think they did yeah.

Mr. McMillen Lois was very visible. Very visible.

Interviewer: Do you think…

Mr. McMillen: She might go down to Bomba's at night with that thing on you see.

Mr. McMillen She uh …

Interviewer: She would?

Mr. McMillen: Sure!

Mr. McMillen She uh … knew a lot of people there. They knew her. Native … people. You know she was pretty well known.

Interviewer: Do you think she made anyone nervous? (PAUSE)

Mr. McMillen Oh no, they wouldn't get nervous about anything down there.

Mr. McMillen: Oh, I guess that's true.

Mr. McMillen There are a lot of drugs down there.

Interviewer: But given, given her attitude you don't think that…

Mr. McMillen No

Interviewer: They might have been concerned that she would see them? Or she might squeal on them?

Mr. McMillen: Squeal on them.

Mr. McMillen I don't think so. I don't know. Can't answer that. But casual use in Bomba's or something. I mean they tell me it's there all the time. I wouldn't know one drug from another if I saw it.

Mr. McMillen: We'd go out to - go home and go to bed. We weren't out at these spots.

Mr. McMillen But uh …She'd be very outspoken. You know. She was aggressive about her beliefs. Very. Hmm.

Interviewer: Well she doesn't, from the pictures and the description she wasn't gonna be shy about…

Mr. McMillen That's right.

Mr. McMillen: What she believed in. But she was basically a very shy person.

Mr. McMillen Yeah. Matter of fact there's a little concern … not concern but … a little possibility some drugs may have been involved in her murder.

Mr. McMillen: I told her that.

Interviewer: You told her about that business.

Mr. McMillen: Yeah.

Mr. McMillen We suspect that. Cause she could come across pretty strongly if she didn't like something.

Interviewer: Well that that's why I asked. I understand it's speculation at this point. But that was really my question. Could she have upset someone or even made them fear she might turn them in if she knew too much?

Mr. McMillen Well that that's a possibility I guess, I don't know.

Interviewer: What's your own gut, Russ?

Mr. McMillen What is my what?

Interviewer: Why do you think it happened?

Mr. McMillen I can't quite hear you.

Interviewer: Why do you think it happened?

Mr. McMillen: Why do I think Lois was killed? I think there was an argument over something in the car that escalated to a confrontation. She was probably knocked out rather quickly. Pretty strong people involved. Um and I think they became frantic. Took her across the road. Put the body in the water, although she was still alive then. I think she died very quickly. I don't think it was a premeditated thing.

Mr. McMillen: No.

Mr. McMillen: Something happened to start a confrontation. And uh … if there were a confrontation Lois could get … very aggressive. She, for example, had mace or something like that, pepper spray? Handy there. They found it either in her hand or near her. So … it was a pretty good argument.

Interviewer: Given, given her own position about violence against women, would you expect her to try to defend herself?

Mr. McMillen: Oh my yes. Oh my yes. She certainly would.

Interviewer: And I asked this question of Jo, are you confident with the way things are proceeding in the Courts?

Mr. McMillen: Well, I'm as confident as I can be given the Court, given the system which is different than in ours. Giving the … Police capability which is not the same as it is everywhere. But from what …. The Police told us, from what we observed down there, at the time of or certainly after the murder, plus what we heard in the pre-trial stuff. We feel that … there is guilt amongst the four men. Very definitely.

Interviewer: Do you believe Plant?

Mr. McMillen Do I believe what?

Interviewer: Do you believe Plant?

Mr. McMillen: Yes, I do. Given his background which is a little strange shall we say. But we were there when he gave his testimony. The story that he told he couldn't possibly have dreamed it up. The cross-examination was given by a superb defense attorney who asked some very pointed questions. And this fellow answered and stuck with his story. And it seemed very real to us.

Interviewer: Well tell me about the Foundation. Jo and I touched on it just a little bit.

Mr. McMillen: Hmmm.

Interviewer: Um. She was your only child?

Mr. McMillen: My only child. Russ has three.

Mr. McMillen: I have three older kids by another marriage.

Interviewer: Uh huh. (PAUSE) Is that part of it that that this will allow her, she she didn't have a chance to marry. She didn't have a chance for children of her own. Is is this the way that she will be sustained?

Mr. McMillen: Well, yes. I think so very definitely. Uh Lois uh is not going to be forgotten. And this is one small way of insuring that and it's also a small way of doing some things that she would have liked.

Interviewer: Your own feelings, Russ, because here you've got a daughter with very passionate feelings about violence against women and her issues. But early on they may not have resonated so much with with dad. How do you feel about it now?

Mr. McMillen: Well, I feel she was correct. I have always supported some of these things before, for good reason. And I feel about the same as I did before. About the issues. Except that she she sorta put asterisk's around them.

Interviewer: What do you think of her work? Her art?

Mr. McMillen: Lois' artwork? I think a great deal more that now than I did before. As her father she was doing this art which was interesting at times. Very different most of the time. I don't think I really appreciated it as much then as I do now. Really looking at it. Um. And thinking about it and trying to analyze what she was trying to express. It means a lot more to me now.

Interviewer: Did you sense before her death that she was as intense and as spiritual and as … effected by the world as she evidently was?

Mr. McMillen: Oh yes, from her conversations. Some of her writings.

Mr. McMillen: Oh there in the writing yeah.

Mr. McMillen: Uh. She was not … interested in structured religion at all. But she was very spiritual. She talked often about God. Which daughter's don't usually talk to their husband … uh their their father's about you know. And she was very intense within herself. Very.

Interviewer: The last trip she was afraid it would be the last trip. But not because of her. (PAUSE)

Mr. McMillen: No, she thought maybe it would be because of me.

Mrs. McMillen: That that he would die. Because he was ill.

Mr. McMillen: I have a little health problem.

Interviewer: And she was worried about you

Mrs. McMillen: It was her father that she was worried about.

Mr. McMillen: Very. (COUGHS)

Mrs. McMillen: Not Lois McMillen or her mother.

Mr. McMillen: No.

Mrs. McMillen: It was her father. She was afraid it was our last Christmas and New Year's together. That's why we all were down there at that time.

Mr. McMillen: Yeah I had a cancer problem. And the preceding year a good friend of ours had died from cancer. And Lois went with me to see him. So she pictured, I guess, me being him. I'm not all that bad off. You know I'm doing just fine. But she was very concerned.

Interviewer: But had a sense, expressed a concern that that would be the last trip for the three of you together.

Mr. McMillen: Yes.

Mrs. McMillen: Oh yes.

Mr. McMillen: Yes she did. She did.

Interviewer: Which is your favorite piece?

Mr. McMillen: Favorite piece?

Interviewer: Painting.

Mr. McMillen: The one's in the room in back of us. The two collages on either side of the room that fit together.

Interviewer: The Revelations?

Mr. McMillen: The Revelations.

Mrs. McMillen: Yes. that that's my favorite.

Interviewer: Why?

Mr. McMillen: Why? Well … because you can look at it, if you really look at it … and you can see all kinds of things. All kinds of things there, not just some colors and … fragments of collage. It it's very imaginative. As she was. And I like it the best. In the living room in there are … not one but two Christmas trees and the whole room is decorated for Christmas. She had spent the entire time decorating it. As a matter of fact, some of the decorations are still down there.

Mr. McMillen: Like on the mantle piece. that was there.

Mr. McMillen: And uh she was very thoughtful that way.

Mr. McMillen: In fact the whole house had been decorated for Christmas.

Mr. McMillen: Oh yeah.

Mr. McMillen: You wonder why the things on the beds and in the other room … the whole house had been decorated for Christmas.

Mr. McMillen: Yes.

Mr. McMillen: And she thought because of his cancer problem that it would be perhaps our last Christmas together and she wanted to make it extra special.

Mr. McMillen: Hmm.

Mrs. McMillen: And that, we were down there for the month of January that year. Because he had chemo just before and then was gonna have it in February.

Mr. McMillen: Hmmm.

Mr. McMillen: So the whole trip had to do with going, getting away from the stress that we have here at home. And getting to a quiet, peaceful (LAUGHTER) relaxing environment where we could just read books and go to the Beach and not have to do anything.

Interviewer: Let me ask you Russ about the piece you like so well. The Diptych I guess essentially. There's another piece where she, with the Queen of Hearts, and I understand she was working on that piece.

Mr. McMillen: Queen of Hearts is the last piece she did. She did that in Tortola and she was working on it just a few days before she died. She had it lying a glass table that we have there. And she doesn't, didn't sit there painting like you think artist's operate at all. She had a brush. The paintings below her, she would look at it. She would walk around here and look at it. And she would put a little dab somewhere and then she'd walk around here. Very, thinking about something all the time. I don't know what the painting's about. It has some pieces of Bible in it that one. And uh some sayings. And no where near completed. Have no idea what it might have been eventually. But that's the last thing she ever did.

Interviewer: And you watched her working on it?

Mr. McMillen: Yes, yes. I did.

Interviewer: Which one is your favorite Jo?

Mr. McMillen: Oh … (PAUSE) I think my favorite are the two self-portraits.

Mr. McMillen: Oh yes.

Mrs. McMillen: Yes I love those. I just love those.

Mr. McMillen: Particularly the one here.

Mrs. McMillen: Yeah. Well I love this one too.

Mr. McMillen: Hmm.

Mrs. McMillen: I sort of - that. I didn't want her to sell it. (LAUGHTER)

Mr. McMillen: Or give it away.

Mrs. McMillen: Or give it away. And she gave a great many away.

Mr. McMillen: Yeah.

Mrs. McMillen: Oh yeah.

Mr. McMillen: Hmm.

Interviewer: Did you, did you worry about her?

Mr. McMillen: Yes, I did.

Interviewer: Why?

Mr. McMillen: Because she, she was such a sensitive person. She she was very naive. And very vulnerable. Very. (PAUSE)

Interviewer: Was that why you talked to the Bartender's or other to watch out for her?

Mr. McMillen: No, but it was just a good idea.

Mrs. McMillen: Yes in part.

Mr. McMillen: Yes yes it was in part.

Mrs. McMillen: Cause there are some … characters down there. You know. Who try to prey on young women. And we know people down there. Just asked them to look after her. And you saw the photograph at Bomba.

Interviewer: I want you to just …

Mr. McMillen: There's a big tough looking Black man. I mean big and tough. And he says you don't worry anything at all about Lois. We'll take care of her.

Interviewer: But you never expected a threat to come?

Mr. McMillen: No.

Mrs. McMillen: No.

Interviewer: An American?

Mrs. McMillen: No.

Mr. McMillen: No.

Mrs. McMillen: No.

Mr. McMillen: Hmmm.

Mrs. McMillen: People that, one that we knew that she knew.

Mr. McMillen: Hmmm.

Interviewer: What, what is Tortola to you now? Has it changed for you personally because of this?

Mr. McMillen: To some degree, yes.

Mrs. McMillen: Well yes of course it would.

Mr. McMillen: It would change. Uh. If she had been killed by some local people our feeling might be quite different than apparently for American's being involved. The people down there have all been very supportive to us and I'm talking now mostly about natives, the Black population that own and run the Island. Have all been very friendly and very supportive of us, haven't they? We like it there. Changed like everything has changed. With more houses and more building but it's still a kind of a pretty nice place to go and relax.

Interviewer: So you'll continue to go?

Mrs. McMillen: Oh yeah.

Mrs. McMillen: If it had happened here in Middlebury, Connecticut we wouldn't move to New Jersey you see.

Interviewer: I asked Jo, Russ if these four men are acquitted how would you feel?

Mr. McMillen: Well, I wouldn't like it very much. The law is the law. It takes it's own course. I would feel that uh I'd be disappointed. Assuming that they're guilty. I believe that they are but they haven't been proven guilty. And uh if if there is proof that I suspect they'll have, I'd be extremely disappointed. But life must go on.

Interviewer: How would Lois have wanted you to take all of this?

Mr. McMillen: Hmmm. I think pretty much as we have. We … have celebrated her life. She would have liked that. She would have loved all of the attention that she's getting now. (INTERVIEWER LAUGHS) I mean she would have eaten it up. The idea of having essentially three funeral services and all kinds of people coming. And talking about her. And the attention being given to some of her art work now. Every artist likes people to say this is great. You know hard __. And she would have enjoyed that very much. The attention. Hmmm. (PAUSE)

Interviewer: Thank you very much.

Mr. McMillen: You bet. ….the justice system. They're very closed mouth. They don't believe in talking to the press. (INAUDIBLE) it's their system.

Interviewer: Well, given what you've heard thus far … other than Plant are they going to have any … other than eye witnesses to say, well I saw her at this place or I saw her at that place. Any physical evidence that you know of connecting any? Are you confident that's gonna come through?

Mr. McMillen: Not that I know of. Outside of the DNA.

Mrs. McMillen: Possibly another witness that might be involved in some … you know who I'm talking about?

Mr. McMillen: No.

Mr. McMillen: Down in New York?

Mr. McMillen: Oh. Oh. Oh. Perhaps.

Mrs. McMillen: Perhaps.

Mr. McMillen: Perhaps.

Mrs. McMillen: Perhaps.

Mr. McMillen: This is someone that was hired by the defendant's to come to Tortola to … (PAUSE) spread some money around. And uh they're looking for him up here.

Interviewer: We're not gonna … I'm not gonna put anything up here. I was just going to say they're just getting shots of me listening to you. I'm not going to put anything in here that could affect the course of the trial. I wouldn't do that. So you think the defendant's paid somebody to come and get some favorable conversation up for them?

END OF INTERVIEW

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