Plaintiff,

VS.

No. Cr. S-96-259 GEB
THEODORE JOHN KACZYNSKI,

Defendant.

 


Reported by:              SUSAN VAUGHAN, CSR No. 9673

           A P P E A R A N C E S

For Plaintiff UNITED STATES OF AMERICA:

      (No appearance)

For the Defendant:

      OFFICE OF THE FEDERAL DEFENDER
      801 "K" Street, Suite 1024
      Sacramento, CA 95814

       By:  QUIN A. DENVIR
      Federal Defender, Eastern District of California

      JUDY CLARKE

      Executive Director, Federal Defenders of

                          Eastern Washington and Idaho
                                 JOHN P. BALAZS
                           Assistant Federal Defender,
                         Eastern District of California


       STERNBERG, SOWARDS & LAURENCE
       604 Mission St., 9th floor
       San Francisco, CA 94105
       BY:  GARY D. SOWARDS

                                    -- 000 --
                                        
                                                                               1
1                        SACRAMENTO, CALIFORNIA

2                   FRIDAY, DECEMBER 19, 1997, 3:37 P.M.

3                             -- 000 ---

4           (The following discussion was held in the courtroom,

5      with Government's counsel and the public being excluded.)

6           THE CLERK: Calling criminal case S-96-259,

7      United States vs. Theodore Kaczynski.

8           THE COURT: Please state your appearances for the

9      record.

10          MS. CLARKE: Judy Clarke, Quin Denvir, Gary Sowards,

11     John Balazs and Mr. Kaczynski are all present, Your Honor.

12          THE COURT: Okay. Let the record reflect that I'm

13     meeting ex parte with the parties that are present. And I'm

14     meeting with the parties in this manner because the defense

15     had requested such a meeting.

16          Before I say anything else, has the status of the matter

17     changed since I spoke to defense counsel yesterday?

18          MS. CLARKE: Your Honor, we believe that it may change.

19     We've had discussions with Mr. Kaczynski, and I believe held

20     like to address that with the Court. There may be a need for

21     a short delay for a final decision-making. But the status

22     could be changing. Am I right?

23          THE DEFENDANT: [Redacted material concerning

24     attorney-client communications.]

25          THE COURT: Okay. Under law I am required to provide



               SUSAN VAUGHAN, CSR No. 9673 





                                                            2

1      you with an opportunity to communicate with me, and perhaps

2      you have just made all the communications you want to make,

3      Mr. Kaczynski, but I'm just making the statements that I'm

4      making to assure myself of that. And if you have made all the

5      communications you want to make, what I'll do is arrange for a

6      time for meeting with you on Monday, if that's what you'd like

7      to have done.

8           THE DEFENDANT: That's very acceptable to me. I said

9      everything in my letters and in what I've just said now.

10     That's all I have to say for the moment.

11          THE COURT: Okay. what time would you like to meet

12     Monday?

13          [Redacted material concerning attorney-client

14     communications.]

15          THE COURT: Okay.

16          (Discussion off the record between the clerk and the

17     Court.)

18          THE COURT: All right. Then we will meet at

19     8:00 o'clock in the morning in the ex parte proceeding

20     in camera.

21          And I'm about to adjourn the ex parte aspect of the

22     proceeding, but I wanted to ask you a question before I

23     adjourn it.

24          I've received communication from two jurors, one which I

25     haven't read yet and the other which is in my office. The



               SUSAN VAUGHAN, CSR No. 9673 

                                                            3

1      Government is on standby call status because of this

2      proceeding. I didn't know what would occur here, and 1

3      thought it possible that the Government would be asked to join

4      some aspect of the proceeding. If you would like, I can call

5      the Government down to the proceeding, open the courtroom;

6      it's up to you whether or not your client continues to

7      participate in the proceeding, but I wanted to ask you

8      wanted to tell you information about two jurors, because I

9      assumed that you would be analyzing the jury pool over the

10     weekend and you would want to know if you were going to have

11     problems with a couple jurors.

12          MS. CLARKE: Could we have just a moment on that, Your

13     Honor, as to whether or not we should proceed right now or

14     not?

15          THE COURT: Sure.

16          (Discussion off the record among defense counsel and the

17     defendant.)

18          MS. CLARKE: That would be fine, Your Honor. That would

19     be fine for the Government to come down. Mr. Kaczynski would

20     like to stay.

21          THE COURT: And I'll open the courtroom to the public?

22          MS. CLARKE: That will be fine.

23          THE COURT: Okay. That's what we'll do.

24          1 will return to the bench; I will direct my deputy

25     clerk to make sure the Government appears and we'll address

               SUSAN VAUGHAN, CSR No. 9673 

                                                            4

1      those two matters.

2           MS. CLARKE: Actually, since Mr. Kaczynski's not dressed

3      out, it would be his request to go.

4           THE COURT: Oh, that's fine. okay.

5           MS. CLARKE: Thank you, Your Honor.

6           THE COURT: Thank you.

7           (A recess was taken.)

8                        (Time noted: 3:45 p.m.)

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