
Courttv.com's Harriet Ryan on the arrest and extradition hearing of polygamist leader Warren Jeffs
August 31, 2006
Court TV Host: Start sending in your questions for Courttv.com's Harriet Ryan... She's been covering this story of polygamist leader Warren Jeffs for a while now in the Southwest, and she was at today's hearing for Jeffs in Las Vegas.
Court TV Host: Welcome, Harriet, thanks for being our guest online today.
Harriet Ryan: My pleasure.
Question from NH-JULIE: Harriet, how old are the girls that Jeffs allegedly forced to marry? And how old are the men?
Harriet Ryan: Julie, there are three different women involved in two states, Utah and Arizona. In Utah, we don't know the exact age of the victim or the age of her "husband" because authorities there are trying to keep her identity secret as she still has connections to the church. I can tell you that one of the victims in Arizona is a 20-year-old named Candi Shapley. She has come forward in the media so we are allowed to say her name. She was 16 when she became the second wife of a 28 year-old man. Keep in mind that although only three victims are named in charging documents, authorities believe that this has happened dozens of times, if not scores.
Question from tara: Welcome Harriet, I missed the hearing today. Is Jeffs going to Utah or Arizona for trial, and when will extradition take place?
Question from A_mazed: Is he going to Arizona or Utah?
Harriet Ryan: He is going to Utah first. There was a conference call among federal, state and local prosecutors yesterday morning and the consensus was that Utah had a better chance of securing higher bail or no bail at all for Jeffs. The charges in Utah -- two counts of rape as an accomplice -- are first-degree felonies and carry sentences of 5 years to life. In Arizona, he's looking at statutory rape charges that are capped at 4 years. Arizona courts could not hold him without bail. As to when the extradition will take place, so far all we know is that it will be some time in the next few days I would imagine that the sheriff in Washington County, Utah wants to keep that information under wraps. I don't think he wants transport interrupted by the media or any of Jeffs followers
Question from Allie: Did anyone from his "cult" come to the courthouse today?
Harriet Ryan: A man who law enforcement identified as his brother, Isaac, was sitting in the front row. He attempted to get Jeffs attention by standing when Jeffs was taken out of the court, but I'm not sure the defendant ever even realized his brother was there, and the man left without speaking to reporters.
Question from NH-JULIE: How is it that Jeffs was pulling in $5 million PER MONTH from his 10,000 followers? Do the men work and hand over their paychecks to him? I mean, that seems like an awful lot of money per MONTH?
Harriet Ryan: I think there's a lot of estimating and speculating going on when you talk about what he is worth and what he has had access to. There definitely is a system of tithing in the FLDS and beyond that members work on "church projects" which raise money for Jeffs. For example, construction companies that build in the Las Vegas valley. So it's sort of like having free labor.
Question from Allie: Has there been any reaction in Jeffs' community...how do they feel about him being arrested?
Harriet Ryan: The people who are still in the church do not talk to outsiders and that obviously includes reporters. They would be thrown out of the FLDS if they were seen speaking to people who do not belong to the church. So I can't tell you how they feel. When I was in Colorado City-Hildale -- their home base -- last month, there was a sense of siege. A lot of the families had started building high fences around their yards so that investigators and other outsiders could not tell who was living there, how many children they have, etc.
Question from wingit: What could be the likely defense tactic that Jeffs could use?
Harriet Ryan: That's a great question. I can tell you something that was successful this week for one of his followers. The victim whose family is still in the church refused to testify. The prosecutor said he is convinced her family and the church members put the screws to this woman and basically intimidated her into not testifying. Now, that is not a legitimate trial strategy, but I'm just throwing it out there as something that prosecutors are going to have to contend with: Scared witnesses. I know in similar cases in Arizona, members of the FLDS tried to mount a religious liberty defense but the judge wouldn't hear of it. He was basically like the issue here is having sex or promoting having sex with underage girls. Period. It has nothing to do with polygamy.
Question from willow: Are they planning on allowing Candi Shapley to testify? Are they worried about her safety?
Harriet Ryan: Candi Shapley has said she won't testify. The prosecutors in Arizona would love it if she would get on the stand and repeat the allegations she made in the grand jury -- you can read her testimony on our site -- but she has said she won't do that. And the judge in Arizona who held her in contempt and confined her in a domestic violence shelter for not testifying will let her go in 30 days if she hasn't changed her mind. When I saw her walk out of court on Tuesday, there was no doubt in my mind that she would do those 30 days rather than testify. I don't think there is any concern about her safety. But I think the judge wanted to remove her from the influence of her parents and other church members and let her think about her decision.
Question from Dusty: Now that Jeffs has been caught and charged are there others in the movement to provide leadership and "pick up where he left off," or do these people now consider themselves to be free?
Question from tara: Harriet, do you see his 'church' breaking down now that Jeff's is arrested?
Harriet Ryan: Great questions. I've heard experts -- people who study this group -- come down on both sides of this question. I don't think there are many people in the church today who are going to abandon their lifestyle because Warren Jeffs was arrested. These people have been raised up in this church and all the love they know in this world came from people who held these beliefs. Our way of life seems unnatural and sinful to them. In the past, individuals and families broke away from the FLDS but continued living similar lives and following the same basic religious beliefs just without the Prophet influence. Still, he is going to be allowed to communicate with his flock from jail. He can write them letters, have visitors, etc. I've often heard the FLDS compared to the mafia when it comes to dealing with courts and perhaps it is an apt analogy. Didn't John Gotti have a lot to say about the running of his Family from prison?
Question from Dusty: So how do we get the minor children out of there, to keep the same crimes from being committed over and over?
Harriet Ryan: I don't know. When Jeffs' father was the Prophet, underage marriages were not as common. Listening to the Prophet is a tenant of this religion, but at least from what we know of the past, marrying underage girls is not crucial to the religion. So perhaps with law enforcement pressure, Jeffs or whoever follows him as leader will simply hold off until their children are 18. It's a difficult issue and it raises a lot of questions about the role of government. Do we want to take 16 year olds away from their parents? When they are 18, they have every right to be in these relationships. Everyone always says educating these young women is the key, but Warren Jeffs closed the schools and told them not to have contact with outsiders so how is that even possible? I'm stumped.
Court TV Host: Any closing thoughts?
Harriet Ryan: It's a sad case. I think these families love each other very much and they certainly don't think they are harming their children. I think they believe they are doing the best for them by raising them in the religion they are convinced is true. Their view of the world is so limited. Jeffs is their sole source of information about the entire world. Just very sad.
Court TV Host: Thanks, Harriet. Come back again soon!
Harriet Ryan: OK.

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